Da
Show enters and exits. Hide enters and exits.
| 00:03:56 | smtlaissezfaire enters the room. | |
| 00:09:27 | pkondzior enters the room. | |
| 00:09:28 | pkondzior_ leaves the room. | |
| 00:11:40 | Defiler | leavengood: That is because Rubinius is awesome |
| 00:11:56 | leavengood | hehe |
| 00:12:18 | ezmobius | http://pastie.org/146779 |
| 00:12:36 | rue | Sweet! |
| 00:12:38 | Defiler | ezmobius: nice |
| 00:12:39 | leavengood | I've been programming Ruby since 2001, been employed full time doing Ruby on Rails for a year, but I've only just heard of it |
| 00:13:10 | leavengood | cool |
| 00:13:19 | Defiler | Well, the project is only 14 months old, so that's not too bad |
| 00:13:33 | Defiler | word-of-mouth-wise |
| 00:13:34 | pkondzior leaves the room. | |
| 00:13:53 | leavengood | yeah, it isn't rubinius' fault, I just don't take the time to keep up to date on all the Ruby happenings |
| 00:13:57 | rue | See, I told you we should have hired the ad guy from wacky wavy inflatable arm flailing tube man |
| 00:14:11 | pkondzior enters the room. | |
| 00:14:13 | benny | haha |
| 00:14:20 | leavengood | hehe |
| 00:14:33 | Defiler | Yeah, we need better branding. :) |
| 00:14:54 | Defiler | Rubinius needs a badass logo so I can get my laptop etched with it |
| 00:15:04 | leavengood | haha |
| 00:15:05 | pkondzior_ enters the room. | |
| 00:15:12 | ezmobius | heh, mongrel works bu complains pretty hard: http://pastie.caboo.se/146780 |
| 00:15:37 | Defiler | ezmobius: Sweet! Specific errors are awesome |
| 00:15:39 | leavengood | I've seen so much happening in the 7 years I've been involved with Ruby, but I must say rubinius looks quite nice |
| 00:16:37 | leavengood | I'm the "original RubyGems" Ryan Leavengood |
| 00:16:52 | Defiler | old-school represent |
| 00:16:56 | leavengood | hmmm, not to try and sound all fancy |
| 00:16:59 | twbray enters the room. | |
| 00:17:10 | antares | Defiler, what's the DOB of Rubinius by the way? |
| 00:17:18 | Defiler | We had the co-founder of the FreeBSD project in here earlier, so don't worry about feeling special :) |
| 00:17:25 | leavengood | haha |
| 00:17:36 | Defiler | antares: Just a sec. |
| 00:17:59 | antares | Defiler, oops, I have full history in my git repo, dumb me :) |
| 00:18:03 | aasmith | would that have been jkh perchance? |
| 00:18:05 | leavengood | well I could have joined the ranks of David Allen Black, Chad Fowler, <insert other Ruby authors/notables here>, but did other things |
| 00:18:11 | ezmobius | Requests per second: 51.99 [#/sec] (mean) |
| 00:18:13 | Defiler | antares: Well, the first commit to a real repo was July 12, 2006.. but the repo wasn't public until a couple of weeks after RubyConf 2006 |
| 00:18:20 | Defiler | aasmith: Yeah |
| 00:18:46 | leavengood | is there any "history" of the project around somewhere? |
| 00:18:50 | leavengood | I always find that interesting |
| 00:18:51 | antares | Defiler, so... lets ask Evan maybe? :) |
| 00:19:00 | rue | ezmobius: Is that successful requests or blowing-up-the-malloc requests? |
| 00:19:07 | antares | Defiler, would be cool to have a DOB somewhere on the project site :)) |
| 00:19:10 | Defiler | leavengood: I believe the slides from Evan's talk at Rubyconf 2006 are up somewhere.. and that had some history about the various prototypes |
| 00:19:11 | rue | ezmobius: 'Cause I bet we can tweak the latter much higher :) |
| 00:19:14 | ezmobius | its blowing up the malloc requests, but it continues to run orperly |
| 00:19:28 | leavengood | Defiler: cool, I will take a look |
| 00:19:34 | Defiler | To summarize, though.. evan did this project called Sydney, which was a giant patch to MRI to make it not suck |
| 00:19:45 | leavengood | ah yes I remember Sydney |
| 00:19:51 | leavengood | I though Evan's name sounded familiar |
| 00:19:52 | Defiler | ..but that turned out not to be feasible.. so he built a prototype of a new system in Ruby |
| 00:19:57 | antares | Defiler, I am working on documentation patches for contributing page... any advices or guidelines for documentation? I only see code and specs guidelines |
| 00:20:08 | antares | Defiler, I mean documentation patches subsection |
| 00:20:17 | Defiler | ..but the Ruby -> native platform stuff turned out to be a bitch, so he hand-translated the Ruby into C, and called it 'shotgun' |
| 00:20:39 | leavengood | IC |
| 00:20:50 | Defiler | That was what finally made it public, though at the time the svn repo still had the Ruby prototype included |
| 00:21:04 | Defiler | There was no clear separation between the two, which I found super super confusing as I got familiar with the project. Heh |
| 00:21:08 | rue | antares: There really are not any except "make it good" :) Most of the LH docs are OK |
| 00:21:23 | leavengood | Defiler: there definitely seems to be some possibly confusing magic going on |
| 00:21:26 | Defiler | Since then, the C VM has been significantly enhanced, and the separation between that and the pure Ruby parts is relatively clear |
| 00:21:28 | leavengood | Ruby in Ruby and all that |
| 00:21:38 | Defiler | There is actually extremely little magic |
| 00:21:41 | Fullmoon enters the room. | |
| 00:21:48 | leavengood | OK |
| 00:21:49 | Defiler | There is some.. but it is actually not in the Ruby layer |
| 00:21:54 | antares | rue, alright, let's say "make it clear for both novices and experienced hackers" |
| 00:21:54 | leavengood | still getting my head around it |
| 00:22:01 | Defiler | It is in subtend, which is our C API (MRI compatible) |
| 00:22:07 | Defiler | subtend is.. hardcore. |
| 00:22:11 | leavengood | ah |
| 00:22:18 | pkondzior leaves the room. | |
| 00:22:50 | leavengood | any good places for a experienced Rubyist but rubinius newbie to start contributing? |
| 00:22:53 | rue | leavengood: Echo that, no magic so much. The VM is, by necessity, a bit more complicated but the Ruby side in kernel/ is pretty straightforward. If you read README-DEVELOPERS, it should pretty much cover any vaguely magic parts |
| 00:22:55 | Defiler | The Ruby stuff can be hard to get your head around though, I totally agree |
| 00:23:03 | Defiler | When you eventually figure it out, though, it tends not to be magic |
| 00:23:27 | Defiler | leavengood: Right this second, you could run: ./bin/ci -t ruby |
| 00:23:30 | leavengood | well I can write meta-programs pretty well in Ruby |
| 00:23:36 | Defiler | (with ruby 1.8.6 p111 installed) |
| 00:23:46 | Defiler | anything that fails in that run is a broken spec |
| 00:23:53 | Defiler | which you could fix to pass on MRI |
| 00:23:53 | leavengood | goes to try that |
| 00:24:09 | Defiler | No spec should ever fails on MRI 1.8.6 p111 |
| 00:24:14 | Defiler | fail, not fails |
| 00:24:19 | twbray leaves the room. | |
| 00:24:20 | rue | leavengood: Another recommendation: grab one of your apps or another library you like and make it run. Write specs and fix if something fails |
| 00:24:37 | Defiler | Oh yeah.. that too. but fixing broken specs is a good way to get familiar with the file layout |
| 00:24:51 | leavengood | cool |
| 00:24:52 | Defiler | You are an experienced Ruby hacker, though, so making real code run better is within your power |
| 00:25:02 | leavengood | right |
| 00:25:39 | Defiler | Make sure you read README-DEVELOPERS.. but the gist of it is that you should never write any clever code in the kernel/ directories |
| 00:25:39 | leavengood | 4534 examples, 16395 expectations, 19 failures, 11 errors |
| 00:26:03 | leavengood | as is usual of the Ruby community, you guys are very helpful |
| 00:26:15 | leavengood | that is why I've stuck around so long |
| 00:26:16 | leavengood | hehe |
| 00:26:18 | Defiler | Also, if you have a choice between two methods to call.. and one of them takes really simple arguments, and the other is complex.. go for the first one |
| 00:26:23 | rue | It is a ruse |
| 00:26:27 | leavengood | :) |
| 00:26:31 | Defiler | An example of that is that if you are writing kernel code.. and you want one element of an Array back.. |
| 00:26:42 | Defiler | use .at(5) instead of [5] |
| 00:27:02 | Defiler | I should make sure that kind of advice is in README-DEVELOPERS, actually |
| 00:27:14 | leavengood | is that for performance? |
| 00:27:29 | Defiler | Partly, but mostly it is to make the whole thing more resilient |
| 00:27:43 | jessop leaves the room. | |
| 00:27:55 | leavengood | to avoid having the kernel choke if someone redefines something? |
| 00:28:03 | Defiler | That specific example has a big performance implication, though.. complex argument processing is a big bottleneck for us right now |
| 00:28:06 | Defiler | yeah |
| 00:28:14 | leavengood | makes sense |
| 00:28:15 | Defiler | A recent example of that was the 'rational' library |
| 00:28:20 | Defiler | It changes the return type of Fixnum#/ |
| 00:28:27 | Defiler | =( |
| 00:28:28 | leavengood | yeah I read about that |
| 00:29:22 | Defiler | but don't be overly concerned about performance at this point |
| 00:29:36 | Defiler | On the other hand, if you change something, and bin/ci takes 10 seconds longer to run.. that is bad |
| 00:30:33 | Defiler | If we accept one of your patches, you get commit access (assuming you want it) |
| 00:31:02 | leavengood | cool |
| 00:31:37 | Defiler | Oh, I should mention that my 'all specs should pass on MRI' statement is currently only true of 32bit systems |
| 00:31:39 | leavengood | shouldn't be too hard for me |
| 00:31:53 | Defiler | We are introducing an 'only run this spec on 64bit systems' wrapper soon, if it isn't already in |
| 00:32:11 | Defiler | There are some dumb specs in there, like one that checks to make sure Fixnum#size is 4 |
| 00:32:11 | leavengood | I'm on Linux with a Core 2 Duo, but had 19 failures and 11 errors |
| 00:32:34 | Defiler | ruby -e "p 5.size" should be 4 |
| 00:32:39 | turtletime enters the room. | |
| 00:32:53 | Defiler | If it isn't, you will need to check to make sure the spec you are fixing isn't going to break on 32bit |
| 00:32:56 | leavengood | tis |
| 00:32:58 | Defiler | cool |
| 00:33:40 | leavengood | sorry I'm running 1.8.5 |
| 00:33:47 | leavengood | stupid Ubuntu |
| 00:33:55 | leavengood | I should just compile my own Ruby |
| 00:34:08 | Defiler | Yeah. You can install it elsewhere and just use it for this, that is fine |
| 00:34:33 | Defiler | The spec suite is written for the latest stable MRI release.. too many things change from patchlevel to patchlevel to keep up with older stuff |
| 00:34:45 | leavengood | yeah that makes sense |
| 00:35:00 | leavengood | is most of the Ruby core and standard lib spec'ed? |
| 00:35:03 | Defiler | Insanely important things change between minor releases of MRI =( |
| 00:35:18 | Defiler | stdlib doesn't have much coverage, though where we have covered it, it tends to be pretty comprehensive |
| 00:35:19 | leavengood | guess you guys aren't big fans of MRI ;) |
| 00:35:47 | headius | I'm not sure I'd call anything comprehensive yet other than a few specific core classes |
| 00:35:56 | Defiler | core has a ton of specs, though perhaps not 100%. there is 'bin/completeness -t ruby' that will show what is missing coverage |
| 00:36:04 | antares | Defiler, I like this "start with bin/ci -t ruby" approach you took here, let me add it to Contribute page I am working on now |
| 00:36:11 | headius | completeness only shows methods that have no specs at all |
| 00:36:18 | Defiler | headius: I was talking about the parts of stdlib that we have specs for, not core |
| 00:36:20 | headius | individual methods often have really slim specs |
| 00:36:28 | Defiler | headius: It shows you every method, and how many specs it has |
| 00:36:37 | antares | Defiler, it is hard to catch up on IRC to follow at the same time though :) |
| 00:36:48 | headius | there's a bunch of IO specs that are completely blank |
| 00:37:06 | Defiler | antares: Hopefully leavengood is going to knock out the ci -t ruby stuff, and that won't need to be a future contribution from anybody. :) |
| 00:37:06 | headius | haven't looked at other areas much yet, been focusing on IO the past week myself in JRuby |
| 00:37:22 | leavengood | So the general workflow would be: define specs that MRI passes, see if rubinius passes them, if not, fix it? |
| 00:37:34 | Defiler | leavengood: OK, fine. We have shit for specs. Add as many as you want. :) |
| 00:37:45 | Defiler | leavengood: ..but yeah, that is totally the workflow |
| 00:38:19 | headius | just don't want to give the wrong impression :) |
| 00:38:20 | Defiler | At the moment, we have so many failing specs (ones excluded from the continuous integration script), that we prefer fixes to existing failures, rather than new failing specs |
| 00:38:25 | Defiler | ..but we will take either |
| 00:38:35 | Defiler | headius: stringio is covered, at least. :) |
| 00:38:35 | leavengood | I've done TDD before, but BDD is new to me, but clearly worth learning, so I'm going to start here :) |
| 00:39:05 | leavengood | OK, well I won't worry about adding new specs yet then |
| 00:39:14 | Defiler | If you were good at TDD, that is basically what BDD is |
| 00:39:16 | leavengood | I didn't know there were so many currently failing |
| 00:39:31 | Defiler | So.. to expand.. |
| 00:39:48 | Defiler | "bin/mspec -t ruby spec" should show no failures at all |
| 00:39:53 | headius | we other projects using the specs would be quite happy with more of them, of course :) |
| 00:39:58 | Defiler | (it has failures right now.. just talking about the ideal) |
| 00:40:13 | leavengood | right |
| 00:40:14 | Defiler | -t lets you set which implementation of Ruby you want to use, by the way |
| 00:40:19 | Defiler | the default is rubinius |
| 00:40:40 | Defiler | So, any specs that fail on MRI 1.8.6p111 are wrong, and need to be fixed |
| 00:40:52 | antares | Defiler, should be aliased as -t mri then :) |
| 00:41:03 | antares | Rubinius is Ruby, too :) |
| 00:41:08 | leavengood | hehe |
| 00:41:08 | Defiler | Once that is true, anything failing in bin/mspec spec (under rubinius) is a rubinius bug |
| 00:41:39 | leavengood | anyone have a link to the tarball for 1.8.6p111? |
| 00:41:43 | Defiler | antares: The options passed to -t are (kinda) named after the binary, rather than the project |
| 00:41:52 | Defiler | antares: e.g. -t rbx, -t jruby, -t ruby |
| 00:41:59 | Defiler | ..but yeah, I feel ya |
| 00:42:16 | Defiler | ftp://ftp.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/1.8/ruby-1.8.6-p111.tar.gz |
| 00:42:24 | leavengood | perfect :) |
| 00:43:07 | Defiler | Going to take a shower.. but best of luck, and thanks for the help |
| 00:43:26 | Defiler | There is a readme about the spec layout, as well, which can be helpful |
| 00:43:34 | antares | Defiler, thanks for clarification |
| 00:43:53 | Defiler | It (should, maybe does?) explain the stuff like "compatible(:juby) do ..." that you will see |
| 00:44:10 | Defiler | Those mark specs that are testing one specific implementation, but perhaps not others |
| 00:44:32 | antares | Defiler, it does that for me, I read specs guards page |
| 00:44:37 | Defiler | So some MRI failures could simply be specs for rubinius only that haven't been marked properly |
| 00:46:50 | leavengood | right |
| 00:47:00 | leavengood | I'm reading the specs docs now |
| 00:47:06 | headius | specs for rubinius only shouldn't be under ruby/1.8 |
| 00:47:15 | headius | so that's one thing to look for |
| 00:47:37 | leavengood | Defiler: you going to the acts_as_conference in Orlando next weekend? |
| 00:47:59 | headius | what's the current passing count anyway |
| 00:48:38 | antares | headius, 14 specs fails on MRI on Leopard |
| 00:48:44 | headius | I haven't seen a good build from rubuildius yet today |
| 00:49:23 | leavengood | I had errors when I first got the source, but they seem to have been fixed |
| 00:49:36 | leavengood | at least one whatever I git pulled a few minutes ago |
| 00:49:42 | headius | I'll have a look |
| 00:50:01 | headius | getting updated numbers for the main 1.8.x impls for my own gratification |
| 00:50:27 | headius | hopefully mspec doesn't collapse under rbx |
| 00:50:28 | antares | headius, rebuild using a5081ca64 and the build is green |
| 00:50:39 | headius | oh, head isn't working? |
| 00:50:48 | antares | maybe I have to pull |
| 00:50:57 | antares | let me check whether I am behind head |
| 00:51:10 | antares | no, I am up to date |
| 00:51:16 | headius | that's too bad |
| 00:51:26 | headius | I'll just wait until it's fixed |
| 00:51:39 | headius | I think it was in the 4600 specs range last I saw |
| 00:52:38 | smtlaissezfaire leaves the room. | |
| 00:53:02 | smtlaissezfaire enters the room. | |
| 00:53:18 | rue | Both of you re-read the last 10 lines. |
| 00:54:03 | headius | I generally just ignore you :) |
| 00:56:12 | headius | head isn't looking so bad |
| 00:56:47 | headius | ack, there it goes |
| 00:56:53 | headius | not sure where it blew up |
| 00:56:53 | headius | New Exception: #<NoMethodError: No method 'awesome_backtrace' on an instance of NilClass.> |
| 00:57:21 | leavengood | haha |
| 00:57:23 | headius | strange object detected as exception: nil |
| 00:57:32 | headius | that was running mspec |
| 00:58:15 | headius | ci blows up too |
| 00:58:40 | headius | so head/a5081ca64 must still be down |
| 01:00:41 | headius | pristine seems to have tidied it up, must have had a bad rbc somewhere |
| 01:00:45 | headius | definitely not green though |
| 01:01:08 | headius | for ci I get 4861/17897/6/34 |
| 01:01:23 | pkondzior_ leaves the room. | |
| 01:02:50 | antares | headius, I used rake spec |
| 01:03:05 | headius | I was just using ci over spec/ruby/1.8 |
| 01:03:32 | smtlaissezfaire leaves the room. | |
| 01:04:01 | smtlaissezfaire enters the room. | |
| 01:04:06 | antares | headius, look |
| 01:04:23 | antares | what I did is literally rake distclean && rake build then bin/ci |
| 01:04:24 | antares | Finished in 22.895183 seconds |
| 01:04:24 | antares | 4654 examples, 17071 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 01:04:32 | antares | on Leopard |
| 01:05:03 | headius | ok |
| 01:05:24 | antares | oops |
| 01:05:31 | pkondzior enters the room. | |
| 01:05:39 | antares | ew Exception: #<NoMethodError: No method 'awesome_backtrace' on an instance of NilClass.> (NilClass) |
| 01:05:47 | antares | when use ./bin/ci spec/ruby/1.8 |
| 01:06:04 | antares | but bin/ci with no args runs fine |
| 01:06:08 | antares | going to report a bug |
| 01:08:55 | leavengood | can you give ci -t a full path? |
| 01:09:18 | leavengood | I put MRI 1.8.6p111 in /usr/local/ |
| 01:09:32 | leavengood | and was trying ./bin/ci -r /usr/local/bin/ruby |
| 01:09:47 | leavengood | had some errors though...but maybe those are real problems |
| 01:10:16 | antares | leavengood, I have errors on CI run using MRI, too |
| 01:10:21 | antares | 19 failures & errors |
| 01:11:07 | leavengood | I have 18 |
| 01:11:42 | leavengood | when using PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH ./bin/ci -t ruby |
| 01:12:19 | brixen | don't use bin/ci with ruby, it's going away soon, so don't worry |
| 01:12:29 | brixen | if you are running bin/mspec -t r spec/ruby |
| 01:12:40 | brixen | *and* you are using 1.8.6p111 |
| 01:12:46 | brixen | enter a bug ticket for failing specs |
| 01:12:55 | brixen | but don't spend time spinning on this :) |
| 01:12:58 | antares | hm |
| 01:13:02 | leavengood | OK |
| 01:13:14 | antares | I am actually happened to use Ruby 1.8.6 patchlevel 110 |
| 01:13:29 | antares | let me compile a new version |
| 01:13:44 | brixen | we're tracking only ruby-lang.org's official stable version, as far as failures on MRI goes |
| 01:13:53 | brixen | any other way was causing us to spin endlessly |
| 01:14:05 | antares | brixen, alright |
| 01:14:25 | brixen | sorry if I sound short, I've got a whopping headache :P |
| 01:14:41 | leavengood | I get 12/12 failures/errors running what you described brixen :( |
| 01:15:08 | leavengood | guess things are messed up at the moment |
| 01:15:10 | antares | brixen, here it is anyway: http://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/tickets/302-bug-spec-suites-run-results-vary-based -on-what-specs-you-run-it-on-and-backtrace-is-not-shown |
| 01:15:45 | leavengood | "friendly" URL? |
| 01:15:45 | leavengood | hehe |
| 01:15:51 | brixen | antares: ok, np, we'll fix it up |
| 01:16:06 | antares | brixen, I wish I had time to help out |
| 01:16:19 | brixen | heh, bug reports are always a help |
| 01:16:37 | antares | brixen, I am writing website content at 3 am so... :) |
| 01:16:55 | antares | brixen, by the way after Wilson left who should I send new pages to? |
| 01:17:19 | brixen | hmm, I suppose you could make tickets for those too |
| 01:17:25 | antares | I want it to be reviewed sooner than later so I can fix things |
| 01:17:27 | antares | alright |
| 01:17:28 | antares | roger |
| 01:17:30 | brixen | there's a few of us who can commit them |
| 01:17:58 | brixen | so, the area to the right under "download" was for a "recent news" section to be pulled from the "News" page |
| 01:18:06 | brixen | antares: you know radiant tags, right? |
| 01:20:13 | antares | brixen, no I don't. Wilson only mentioned it is fine to use Markdown or Textile or html so I am using markdown |
| 01:20:23 | antares | any special tags in Radiant? |
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| 01:21:27 | brixen | antares: ok, no worries |
| 01:21:32 | brixen | textile, markdown is fine |
| 01:22:10 | brixen | antares: I updated the ticket, but the short answer is: when you run "bin/ci" none of spec/ruby/1.8/library is run |
| 01:22:23 | antares | brixen, how should I format source code and so forth? |
| 01:22:24 | brixen | if you give it an explicit path, it runs all those specs that are not excluded |
| 01:22:31 | antares | brixen, so ticket is invalid, right? |
| 01:22:47 | brixen | no worries on the ticket, it's something we need to fix |
| 01:22:58 | brixen | just that it's confusing to people I think, so I left the comment |
| 01:23:08 | antares | brixen, I see. See question on source code formatiting above. |
| 01:23:19 | brixen | hmm, I guess <pre><code> |
| 01:23:41 | brixen | we don't have a syntax highlighter module yet, but I know Defiler has one he likes, I'm sure we'll integrate it |
| 01:23:43 | antares | for example I am using existing content for Writing specs section and there's a lot of source code quotations and even some ASCII art :) |
| 01:23:56 | antares | brixen, pre is what I am using now |
| 01:23:57 | brixen | it wil be easy to add the tags for Ruby code syntax highlighting |
| 01:23:58 | antares | cool |
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| 01:42:19 | antares | brixen, Contribute page got bloated I think |
| 01:42:23 | antares | too many information |
| 01:43:06 | brixen | yeah, everything needs some information architecture touch for sure |
| 01:43:17 | antares | I have to create a shorter version tomorrow though it is hard to imagine busy developer who can spend only 2 minutes to read FOSS project contributions guidelines but has 30 minutes to get into source and contribute a patch :) |
| 01:43:28 | brixen | heh |
| 01:43:35 | brixen | first you hook 'em |
| 01:43:37 | antares | brixen, it is already like 5-6 pages in textmate |
| 01:43:53 | antares | oops, way more now I think |
| 01:44:08 | brixen | well, break it up as appropriate |
| 01:44:14 | antares | almost 600 lines |
| 01:44:23 | brixen | we can add subnav to rubini.us |
| 01:44:28 | brixen | like everything else, it's a wip |
| 01:44:48 | antares | Alright, there are subsections for this purpose already |
| 01:45:15 | antares | brixen, by the way when do you feel Rubinius will be running Rails? |
| 01:45:32 | antares | brixen, beside "when it is done" :) |
| 01:45:44 | brixen | hmm, good question |
| 01:45:52 | brixen | I'm thinking fairly soon actually |
| 01:45:59 | antares | brixen, say is it 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year? |
| 01:46:00 | brixen | a couple (few) months |
| 01:46:15 | antares | I heard Ryan thinks it is like 6 months no less |
| 01:46:24 | brixen | probably fair |
| 01:46:39 | antares | alright, near future anyway |
| 01:46:41 | brixen | I could be overly optimistic :) |
| 01:48:21 | antares | brixen, what would you recommend to read for one who wants to hack VM internals? |
| 01:48:46 | brixen | heh, very good Q |
| 01:49:06 | antares | brixen, Dragon book is not about VMs actually, that Smalltalk 80 language and implementation book (aka Blue book)? |
| 01:49:25 | rue | Oh, screw this. |
| 01:49:27 | brixen | yes, bluebook impl chapters is a very good place to start |
| 01:49:33 | brixen | antares: do you have a link to the pdf? |
| 01:49:47 | twshelton leaves the room. | |
| 01:49:48 | antares | brixen, I do, is it really free nowdays? |
| 01:49:50 | rue | DataMapper is really pissing me the hell off |
| 01:49:57 | antares | rue, what's up? |
| 01:49:57 | brixen | antares: also, evan recently recommended "virtual machines" by smith and nair, I've got it and it's quite good |
| 01:50:20 | antares | brixen, thanks. Will write a blog post with these recommendations now :) |
| 01:50:43 | headius | while ((c = appendline(fptr, newline, &str)) != EOF && |
| 01:50:43 | headius | (c != newline || RSTRING(str)->len < rslen || |
| 01:50:43 | headius | (rspara || rscheck(rsptr,rslen,rs), 0) || |
| 01:50:43 | headius | memcmp(RSTRING(str)->ptr+RSTRING(str)->len-rslen,rsptr,rslen))); |
| 01:50:46 | headius | gimme a break |
| 01:51:29 | brixen | headius: that would be like 20 chars if you were using ruby :P |
| 01:51:41 | headius | that's C, nimrod |
| 01:51:49 | brixen | headius: I can see what you mean about clean though :P |
| 01:52:11 | brixen | heh |
| 01:52:41 | headius | and being 20 chars isn't much help if it's 20x slower |
| 01:52:43 | headius | BURN |
| 01:52:46 | brixen | hah! |
| 01:52:50 | headius | so let's all play nicey nice |
| 01:52:57 | brixen | just keeeding |
| 01:54:26 | rue | antares: Mainly, it does not work. The associations are completely fucked up. I should have just used Sequel hours ago. |
| 01:54:54 | headius | half the pain of porting this shit is all the gymnastics to manage strings |
| 01:54:55 | antares | rue, mm, got an example? |
| 01:55:15 | headius | the code's 1/10 what it is when I get it into Java, but it's a nightmare of pointer math in C |
| 01:55:21 | antares | rue, just curios because I was looking at Ruby ORMs recently and liked DataMapper probably more than anything else out there |
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| 01:59:42 | headius | how does this work in C |
| 01:59:42 | headius | (rspara || rscheck(rsptr,rslen,rs), 0) |
| 01:59:49 | headius | it's the , 0 that's throwing me off |
| 02:00:04 | brixen | the comma operator discards the first |
| 02:00:34 | brixen | one sec while I figure out the precedence |
| 02:00:55 | headius | this or this, otherwise zero |
| 02:00:59 | headius | something like that? |
| 02:01:09 | brixen | looks like comma has the lowest |
| 02:01:32 | brixen | so equivalent to ((rspara || rscheck(rsptr,rslen,rs)), 0 |
| 02:01:36 | brixen | should be 0 always |
| 02:02:40 | brixen | in fact, it discards multiple: a, b, c, d => d |
| 02:10:07 | rue | antares: Conceptually great but I cannot get it to work |
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| 02:49:13 | antares | brixen, do you think posting a rough cuts early version of Contributing page is a good idea? |
| 02:49:47 | antares | brixen, it is just a compilation of what we had at LH with some organization and short introduction |
| 02:50:00 | brixen | antares: sure, you done already? |
| 02:50:03 | brixen | I can put it up |
| 02:50:29 | brixen | antares: maybe pastie it with ## sections for subpages |
| 02:54:00 | antares | brixen, I just want someone to review it |
| 02:54:05 | antares | let me pastie it |
| 02:54:13 | antares | btw how do I use pastie bot here? |
| 02:54:17 | antares | I saw people using it |
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| 02:55:20 | antares | brixen, here you go: http://pastie.org/146812 |
| 02:55:40 | antares | brixen, this is what I have now, just a quick compilation with simple formatting for code snippets and so forth |
| 02:55:54 | antares | I am going to work on it tomorrow but now it is 5 am and I'm better to have some sleep |
| 02:56:16 | antares | brixen, should I open up a ticket for this? |
| 02:56:29 | Defiler | Actually, yeah. That is a good idea |
| 02:56:40 | Defiler | The ticket system is often how we handle the commit access process |
| 03:00:50 | antares | Defiler, there you go: http://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/tickets/303-website-rubinius-website-contribute-pa ge-content |
| 03:01:08 | antares | Defiler, then we need to update "how to report a bug" page or how it is called |
| 03:01:14 | antares | add [WEBSITE] thing there |
| 03:01:31 | antares | and I added a tag already in LH |
| 03:01:50 | antares | alright guys, talk to you tomorrow if you happen to spend Sunday here :) |
| 03:04:26 | twbray enters the room. | |
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| 03:06:26 | brixen | antares: thanks! |
| 03:07:12 | brixen | Defiler: are you handling that ticket? |
| 03:08:25 | pergesu leaves the room. | |
| 03:08:56 | Defiler | brixen: I am thinking about going to play some Rock Band first |
| 03:08:56 | jkh leaves the room. | |
| 03:09:03 | Defiler | brixen: So if you are active, you could do it |
| 03:09:07 | Defiler | Or I can do it when I get back |
| 03:09:12 | brixen | heh, sounds fun |
| 03:09:25 | brixen | well, looking at it, needs to be broken up some |
| 03:09:33 | Defiler | I just had superb Lebanese food, as well. |
| 03:09:35 | Defiler | Good times |
| 03:10:05 | brixen | nice |
| 03:13:46 | evan | is reviewing the IRC log. |
| 03:13:54 | evan | looks like it was busy today. |
| 03:16:02 | brixen | quite |
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| 03:46:11 | evan | hm. i wonder if we should move the IRC archive to a more official server |
| 03:46:13 | evan | who runs it now? |
| 03:46:26 | evan | anyway, something to consider. |
| 03:46:29 | evan | i'm off to dinner. |
| 03:46:51 | brixen | I think it was danlucraft ? |
| 03:46:59 | lstoll leaves the room. | |
| 03:47:09 | brixen | but yeah, an official log on rubini.us might be a good idea |
| 03:47:16 | brixen | off to dinner too |
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| 03:53:51 | evan | jkh: I'm headed out now, but I'd love (to the point of pay you) to talk about LLVM |
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| 04:20:04 | solarce | brixen: hey |
| 04:23:03 | jkh | evan: that would be fine |
| 04:23:11 | jkh | evan: depending on where you are, I'd be happy to have you out to apple |
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| 04:25:14 | rue | I think you should spring for a full meal |
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| 04:45:37 | jkh | rue: you mean at Apple? |
| 04:45:48 | jkh | rue: Sure, I'd be happy to buy Evan dinner. :) |
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| 04:52:04 | leavengood | looking forward to meeting you at acts_as_conference evan |
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| 04:58:39 | brixen | solarce: yo |
| 04:59:46 | brixen | bbiab.. |
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| 05:25:56 | rue | jkh: Ignore my feeble jokes :) |
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| 05:49:12 | solarce | brixen: hi |
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| 05:55:10 | rue | This is like a really slow game of tag |
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| 06:07:41 | brixen | solarce: sup |
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| 06:14:51 | rue | Giving 3:2 for a 18-minute delay |
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| 06:27:29 | rue | 5 minutes to go |
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| 11:12:51 | PierreY | hi guys ! 4656 examples, 17072 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors / AMD64 :-) nice shot |
| 11:14:26 | dbussink | yeah :) |
| 11:14:44 | dbussink | but anyone in here who knows how to push to a branch other than master? |
| 11:14:57 | dbussink | because i fixed something in the wilson64 branch and would like to push it there |
| 11:16:20 | PierreY | DrNic wrote that some minutes ago : http://drnicwilliams.com/2008/02/03/using-git-within-a-team/ |
| 11:16:25 | PierreY | it may helps |
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| 11:27:45 | dbussink | auch |
| 11:27:54 | dbussink | what is the git undo command? :P |
| 11:28:13 | PierreY | revert ? |
| 11:32:31 | up_the_irons | dbussink: what do you want to undo? |
| 11:32:34 | up_the_irons | dbussink: last commit? |
| 11:32:47 | up_the_irons | dbussink: have you shared this commit? (pushed it) |
| 11:33:00 | dbussink | the problem is i accidently removed a remote branch because i misread a use case of git push |
| 11:33:14 | up_the_irons | dbussink: ah |
| 11:33:16 | up_the_irons | what did you type? |
| 11:33:18 | dbussink | i have the branch locally, so i want to either undo the delete or push my local branch |
| 11:33:33 | up_the_irons | dbussink: just push the local branch -- git push origin my_branch |
| 11:33:37 | up_the_irons | dbussink: it'll put it back |
| 11:34:48 | dbussink | up_the_irons: ah, thnx, saved my day :) |
| 11:35:09 | dbussink | Defiler: you're probably not in are you? |
| 11:35:21 | up_the_irons | dbussink: np :) |
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| 12:04:05 | FrihD enters the room. | |
| 12:04:10 | FrihD | hello world |
| 12:05:50 | dbussink | didn't we are the world :) |
| 12:05:56 | dbussink | didn't know |
| 12:06:09 | FrihD | i'm part of, i guess |
| 12:06:16 | FrihD | so, hello myself |
| 12:06:33 | FrihD | i'm currently compiling rubinius :) |
| 12:06:34 | aotearoa enters the room. | |
| 12:07:08 | dbussink | ah, well, that happens ;) |
| 12:07:20 | FrihD | i had to remove 4 or 5 extra commas to "rake build" |
| 12:07:33 | FrihD | in the ends of some arrays |
| 12:07:53 | FrihD | but maybe that's a problem from 1.9 that i installed last week ;) |
| 12:08:49 | dbussink | ah, well, 1.9 is not ready for real world usage imho |
| 12:08:57 | dbussink | so i really suggest going back to 1.8 |
| 12:10:37 | FrihD | well, i'm currently trying a lot of things, i'll soon change my computer , so i'm not really bothered about putting havoc in it :D |
| 12:10:47 | FrihD | this one is getting old |
| 12:11:35 | FrihD | ok compiled ! :) |
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| 12:27:14 | boyscout | 1 commit by Dirkjan Bussink |
| 12:27:15 | boyscout | * Fixed Time specs for non Rubinius platforms; ac4600f |
| 12:27:30 | dbussink | FrihD: no other serious problems with 1.9? |
| 12:28:09 | FrihD | dbussink : i don't know how to test rubinius ;) |
| 12:28:25 | FrihD | but i'll revert to 1.8 to test it :D |
| 12:28:32 | FrihD | later i'll try the sorcery :D |
| 12:28:42 | dbussink | FrihD: http://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/specs-overview |
| 12:29:01 | dbussink | ./bin/ci inside the rubinius checkout directory runs all the specs that are known to work |
| 12:29:29 | FrihD | ok |
| 12:30:47 | mutle enters the room. | |
| 12:31:11 | dbussink | there are quite a few pages that should give you a good insight on how we work on rubinius |
| 12:31:43 | FrihD | yep ;) |
| 12:32:39 | dbussink | you're looking to contribute? |
| 12:33:03 | octopod enters the room. | |
| 12:33:10 | FrihD | i'm looking for a ruby project to contribute-in indeed |
| 12:33:27 | aotearoa_ leaves the room. | |
| 12:33:36 | FrihD | i once started a game-coding-framework known as Ferus, but alone it's hard to follow :) |
| 12:35:37 | PierreY | FrihD: rubinius is the right choice, these guys are really nice :-) |
| 12:35:58 | FrihD | PierreY t'es francophone ? |
| 12:36:04 | PierreY | ouaip |
| 12:36:14 | FrihD | :) |
| 12:36:23 | FrihD | Finished in 168.128741 seconds |
| 12:36:23 | FrihD | 4656 examples, 17080 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 12:36:32 | antares enters the room. | |
| 12:36:40 | PierreY | FrihD: x86 ou amd64 ? |
| 12:36:44 | FrihD | x86 |
| 12:37:11 | FrihD | lucas[rubinius]$ ruby -v |
| 12:37:11 | FrihD | ruby 1.9.0 (2007-12-25 revision 14709) [i686-linux] |
| 12:37:25 | FrihD | lucas[rubinius]$ uname -a |
| 12:37:25 | FrihD | Linux zenwalk 2.6.22.9 #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Sep 29 22:22:07 CEST 2007 i686 Intel(R) Celeron(R) M processor 1.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux |
| 12:37:41 | dbussink | well, ruby is not necessary anymore after rubinius is build |
| 12:37:49 | FrihD | :) fine |
| 12:38:01 | PierreY | (ca va peut-être les ennerver qu'on cause en français... le code actuel de rubinius compile et tous les tests de bin/ci passent depuis aujourd'hui) |
| 12:38:28 | FrihD | (bah parlons anglais, ça me dérange pas) |
| 12:38:28 | PierreY | sur amd64 |
| 12:38:46 | dbussink | pas de francais ici! :P |
| 12:39:04 | rubuildius | Dirkjan Bussink: ac4600fcb; 4656 examples, 17064 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 12:39:40 | PierreY | sure ;-) french are strange people with strange mesures and strange acronyms :-) |
| 12:40:07 | FrihD | and strange language full of tricks :D |
| 12:40:22 | dbussink | they start talking french the first minute they think it's safe :) |
| 12:40:48 | FrihD | well, i'll be leaving soon, i've a mahjong session this afternoon :p :) |
| 12:41:48 | PierreY | everybody is sleeping for now, except you dbussink |
| 12:42:04 | dbussink | well, some more european contributors would be a good thing to prevent the silence here during the da |
| 12:42:05 | dbussink | day |
| 12:42:12 | FrihD | huhu |
| 12:42:42 | PierreY | pray time ? |
| 12:42:45 | FrihD | french are only working 35hours a week ! :D we've plenty time to chat |
| 12:43:49 | dbussink | i don't know what the official hours here are, i'll probably start on a 40 hour contract |
| 12:44:03 | FrihD | just for your information, i'm a C and ruby coder :) i don't know which profile is the most needed |
| 12:44:16 | dbussink | well, depends on what you want to do |
| 12:44:42 | dbussink | we write as much as reasonably possible in ruby itself |
| 12:44:48 | FrihD | hard question :D |
| 12:44:59 | FrihD | yep I heard that's the goal of rubinius ;) |
| 12:46:50 | FrihD | The Rubinius project uses BDD-style executable specifications to drive development. < what's "BDD" ? binary decision diagram ? |
| 12:47:17 | dbussink | behavior driven development |
| 12:47:20 | FrihD | ok ;) |
| 12:47:33 | dbussink | that means write a specification before an implementation |
| 12:47:47 | dbussink | if you find a bug, first write a specification that exposes the bug |
| 12:47:52 | dbussink | and only then start fixing it |
| 12:49:16 | FrihD | i understand |
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| 12:58:31 | antares | FrihD, on a new rubini.us Contribute page BDD is linked to Wikipedia page :) |
| 12:59:33 | geekounet enters the room. | |
| 13:00:44 | FrihD | in fact i know what's behavior driven development, but i last year made a security project on binary decision diagrams. It cost me so many headhaches that BDD acronym is like a psychological offense :p. |
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| 13:24:13 | PierreY | $ shotgun/rubinius -> require 'pp' -> pp.rb and prettyprint.rb are compiled into stdlib, does that mean that pp and prettyprint can be moved into lib ? |
| 13:24:58 | dbussink | is there a spec that tests their behavior? everything that is known to work ok is moved to lib |
| 13:26:03 | PierreY | so I have to write the specs ? |
| 13:29:21 | dbussink | well, that would be nice to have :) |
| 13:30:13 | dbussink | i don't the exact policy for it though |
| 13:30:15 | PierreY | there are unit tests into the pp.rb file, should these be converted into specs ? |
| 13:31:01 | dbussink | that's probably the easiest way |
| 13:31:14 | dbussink | and put them in spec/ruby/1.8/library/pp/ |
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| 13:32:34 | PierreY | dbussink: and put them in spec/ruby/1.8/library/pp/ <= that was my next question ;-) |
| 13:33:10 | dbussink | problem is that there is some stuff in lib/ that is not specced, but i don't we should be adding more of those cases |
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| 13:37:42 | PierreY | what's fun with 'pp' is that it is already required by rubinius files : $ grep -R "require 'pp'" * |
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| 13:40:23 | dbussink | ah, well, an even bigger reason to get it in properly :) |
| 13:41:30 | PierreY | sorry, another stupid question : what is a "shell glob" ? |
| 13:42:31 | dbussink | glob is a function that finds all files according to a pattern expression |
| 13:43:50 | PierreY | something like "*.*" ? |
| 13:45:34 | dbussink | yeah |
| 13:47:04 | PierreY | oh man, why adding more words for such simple things... |
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| 13:55:12 | dbussink | well, afaik glob is a reasonably well known term |
| 13:55:28 | PierreY | :-) |
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| 14:43:36 | VVSiz | dbussink: hi there |
| 14:44:08 | dbussink | VVSiz: hi, what's up? |
| 14:44:18 | VVSiz | two Date#strptime specs fail for me with Jruby, MRI 1.8.6 on Linux |
| 14:44:32 | VVSiz | strptime_spec.rb:22, strptime_spec.rb:17 |
| 14:44:55 | dbussink | hmm, i see them too with rubinius |
| 14:45:08 | dbussink | let me check |
| 14:46:10 | VVSiz | well, it seems that the day is hardcoded |
| 14:46:32 | dbussink | not really, the problem is that i use commercial days there and they start on monday, not sunday |
| 14:47:02 | VVSiz | seems so. the hardcoded day is actually is what really tested, is it's right |
| 14:48:58 | VVSiz | what's sad is that MRI 1.9 fails 42 specs for Date 8-( |
| 14:49:04 | dbussink | problem is that for today, d.cweek indicates the wrong date |
| 14:49:08 | dbussink | hmmm, what kind of failures. |
| 14:49:10 | dbussink | ? |
| 14:49:48 | VVSiz | pastie: for dbussink |
| 14:50:03 | pastie | dbussink: http://pastie.org/146918 by VVSiz. |
| 14:50:49 | VVSiz | while MRI 1.9 failures are things for the future, those 2 failures with MRI 1.8.6 would be nice to fix |
| 14:51:08 | dbussink | yeah, i know |
| 14:51:26 | dbussink | i see they made a lot of stuff private in 1.9 |
| 14:52:00 | VVSiz | yep, and a bit more strict, if I understand it correctly, failing in some cases where MRI 1.8.6 was not |
| 14:55:31 | boyscout | 1 commit by Dirkjan Bussink |
| 14:55:32 | boyscout | * Fix Date#strptime specs; f7d1139 |
| 14:55:39 | dbussink | VVSiz: there you are :) |
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| 15:00:15 | VVSiz | nice. thanks a lot! :) |
| 15:00:51 | dbussink | we really need to get those library specs in ./bin/ci otherwise they're always forgotten |
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| 15:08:55 | rubuildius | Dirkjan Bussink: f7d1139e4; 4656 examples, 17064 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 18:32:58 | schleyfox | bin/ci is failing for me because "-0".to_f != "-0.0".to_f != -0.0 :( |
| 18:37:34 | schleyfox | exactly |
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| 19:11:12 | dbussink | Defiler: are you in? |
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| 20:23:36 | rue | Morning |
| 20:24:11 | dbussink | hey, more people! :P |
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| 20:27:09 | rue | Damn, it is dbussink |
| 20:27:14 | rue | I, uh, have to go |
| 20:27:36 | dbussink | am i so scary? |
| 20:27:46 | rue | is, like, TOTALLY not here |
| 20:27:54 | rue | :D |
| 20:28:00 | rue | Been a slow night/day, huh? |
| 20:28:15 | rue | Yesterday was a bit busier than the usual Saturday |
| 20:28:48 | dbussink | guess everybody is going to watch the superbowl over there? |
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| 20:29:03 | brixen | hah, not a chance |
| 20:29:12 | rue | Nah |
| 20:29:34 | rue | I am waiting for that brixen character to stop sniffing flowers ;) |
| 20:29:39 | brixen | heh |
| 20:29:54 | rue | On the upside, I might have a 0.1 finished today |
| 20:30:26 | brixen | release release |
| 20:31:04 | brixen | rue: I'm considering dropping the target stuff from the runner scripts |
| 20:31:17 | brixen | so, you'd do e.g. ruby bin/mspec to run under ruby |
| 20:31:19 | obvio enters the room. | |
| 20:31:52 | brixen | but, I'm also thinking of releasing a gem, which would make that something of a pain |
| 20:31:54 | rue | Hm, which would be better for terminology? Is /foo higher or lower in the hierarchy than /foo/bar ? |
| 20:32:08 | rue | brixen: I would leave it in just for simplicity |
| 20:32:29 | brixen | rue: yeah, that's what I'm thinking too, after wrangling with it a bit |
| 20:32:38 | brixen | damn runners scripts are a bitch |
| 20:32:42 | rue | Technically, branches are higher than the roots |
| 20:32:55 | rue | On the other hand, /foo/bar is a subdirectory of /foo |
| 20:32:55 | brixen | unless your tree is upside down |
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| 20:33:10 | rue | This is confusing |
| 20:33:13 | brixen | /foo/bar is deeper than /foo |
| 20:33:14 | brixen | ? |
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| 20:33:40 | rue | Yeah, 'deep' works OK but there is no antonym for it that is as unambiguous |
| 20:33:47 | brixen | \/foo is a parent of bar in /foo/bar |
| 20:33:58 | rue | 'Shallow' seems inappropriate |
| 20:34:16 | brixen | unless you have, say, /hal :P |
| 20:34:27 | rue | Bah :) |
| 20:34:57 | rue | I will just go with 'higher' toward root, 'deeper' toward branches |
| 20:35:02 | rue | I call this the Australian Filesystem |
| 20:35:14 | brixen | heh |
| 20:35:41 | brixen | you could use "leafier" and "rootier" or "trunkier" :P |
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| 20:36:23 | rue | Excellent! |
| 20:36:48 | brixen | you'll need to disambiguate when you are a leafy as trunky, e.g. bar in /foo/bar/baz |
| 20:36:51 | rue | I already have Tangents, Chapters and Verses. Leafy and Rooty will blend in |
| 20:37:00 | brixen | perfect |
| 20:38:13 | brixen | rue: what ormm did you end up with? |
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| 20:38:50 | rue | I am just using Sequel as a better SQL basically |
| 20:38:59 | brixen | new acronym: ormm - Object-Relational Mapping nightMare |
| 20:39:00 | rue | They all have retarded requirements |
| 20:39:27 | rue | Like that you have to have a DB connection open when defining a model |
| 20:39:47 | brixen | did you look at OG? |
| 20:39:50 | rue | Any sensible framework would make that lazy and only write it when .create_table or whatever is called |
| 20:40:20 | rue | I thought George scrapped Og. I could.. I will just go the straightforward way for now |
| 20:40:40 | brixen | ahh, could have, I haven't looked in forever |
| 20:41:27 | rue | But I mean how in the hell do you control when the models are entered in the DB other than putting the whole thing in a separate file? |
| 20:41:30 | rue | Stupid, I say |
| 20:43:00 | brixen | migrations |
| 20:43:25 | rue | Which still requires a separate setup |
| 20:43:36 | brixen | yep |
| 20:43:45 | rue | I just want to define my classes, and call .create_table or .migrate or whatever in my setup method |
| 20:43:45 | brixen | but I think that part AR got right |
| 20:44:00 | brixen | sure, you could fold them in, I suppose |
| 20:44:21 | rue | I could just have load "setup_db.rb" but that is stupid. Bad design |
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| 21:23:23 | evan | wtf is with ci spewing out errors and segfaulting?! |
| 21:24:56 | evan | crap. it might be me. |
| 21:30:13 | rue | I reverted the changes from Friday, make sure you are not relying on those |
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| 21:32:04 | evan | k |
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