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| 00:02:59 | d2dchat leaves the room. | |
| 00:03:34 | wmoxam leaves the room. | |
| 00:08:37 | ctennis leaves the room. | |
| 00:10:41 | zenspider | my tracebacks are all misaligned now |
| 00:10:45 | zenspider | :( |
| 00:11:24 | jero5 enters the room. | |
| 00:12:35 | evan | poor tracebacks |
| 00:17:03 | drbrain | ha! I done broked Hash#find_unambigous |
| 00:17:20 | drbrain | wait, let me try rake |
| 00:17:27 | drbrain | woo! |
| 00:17:31 | ctennis enters the room. | |
| 00:17:37 | drbrain | ok |
| 00:18:01 | imajes leaves the room. | |
| 00:19:08 | drbrain | um, hash_find_entry() doesn't check #eql? |
| 00:19:12 | evan | nope |
| 00:19:16 | evan | can't |
| 00:19:25 | drbrain | somebody needs to |
| 00:19:39 | evan | Hash needs to not use it |
| 00:20:06 | drbrain | o1 = Object.new; def o1.hash() 0 end; # ditto for o2 |
| 00:20:11 | evan | thats why Hash#[] and Hash#[]= do everything themselves |
| 00:20:13 | evan | yeah, i know. |
| 00:20:16 | drbrain | {o1 => nil}.key? o2 # => true |
| 00:20:26 | evan | it's a bug that Hash still uses find_unambigous as a primitive |
| 00:20:30 | drbrain | this is breaking RubyGems |
| 00:20:41 | evan | find_unambigious, the primitive, will never work right for correct Hash behavior. |
| 00:20:55 | evan | drbrain: rewriting find_unambigious should be easy |
| 00:20:56 | drbrain | ok, what should it use? |
| 00:21:04 | evan | rewrite it to be in straight ruby |
| 00:21:10 | evan | using the same technique that Hash#[] uses |
| 00:21:21 | drbrain | ok |
| 00:22:16 | drbrain | um, Hash#[] seems to use get_by_hash just like #key? |
| 00:22:22 | drbrain | I only see the definition in bootstrap |
| 00:22:40 | evan | mm |
| 00:22:41 | evan | one sec. |
| 00:22:53 | evan | look in core/hash.rb |
| 00:23:00 | evan | it's called get_key_cv |
| 00:23:09 | evan | get_key_cv is aliased to [] in the after_loaded |
| 00:23:15 | drbrain | ok |
| 00:26:20 | pkondzior enters the room. | |
| 00:26:22 | ircleuser enters the room. | |
| 00:31:29 | headius enters the room. | |
| 00:31:41 | headius | stupid bar doesn't allow port 6667 |
| 00:31:54 | evan | where ya at? |
| 00:33:23 | headius | granite city |
| 00:33:30 | evan | where's that? |
| 00:33:38 | headius | oh, back home |
| 00:33:43 | headius | I'm hear until thursday |
| 00:33:46 | evan | at bar? |
| 00:34:00 | headius | which reminds me...your charity session talks about building an app on merb and rubinius |
| 00:34:07 | evan | yeees? |
| 00:34:07 | headius | merb running well enough for that on rubinius now? |
| 00:34:20 | evan | it's not about building an app on merb and rubinius |
| 00:34:27 | evan | not entirely |
| 00:34:35 | headius | "Over the course of the session, with the aid of the audience, they'll build an application using Merb and Rubinius." |
| 00:34:36 | evan | is that what they have it listed as only? |
| 00:34:48 | evan | well, we'll have it working enough. |
| 00:34:49 | headius | that's on the charity description |
| 00:34:49 | evan | yeah. |
| 00:35:19 | headius | neato |
| 00:35:31 | evan | a lot will likely be the first part though. |
| 00:35:50 | headius | ok....from the description it's all in parallel |
| 00:35:50 | evan | then use live coding of merb + rubinius as examples |
| 00:36:08 | headius | I'm trying to figure out what I want to present |
| 00:36:13 | evan | ezmobius said he ran merb-core on rubinius last night |
| 00:36:14 | headius | given that I don't know rails |
| 00:36:22 | evan | hehe |
| 00:38:54 | pkondzior_ enters the room. | |
| 00:38:54 | pkondzior leaves the room. | |
| 00:38:59 | headius | well maybe I'll hang out in there...I'm arriving thursday night |
| 00:39:12 | evan | ditto |
| 00:41:28 | radarek leaves the room. | |
| 00:57:23 | drbrain | cpu_marshal.c:62: warning: ‘marshal_int’ defined but not used |
| 00:57:45 | evan | yeah |
| 00:57:51 | evan | Defiler needs to delete that |
| 00:57:56 | evan | thats his burden. |
| 00:58:10 | drbrain | it's everybody's burden now :( |
| 00:58:24 | evan | feel free to delete it then |
| 00:58:30 | drbrain | evan: should I go forward with my libzip -> ar + zlib thing? |
| 00:58:50 | evan | only if we have a way to update the files from the command line that doesn't use rubinius |
| 00:58:53 | evan | ie, a failsafe. |
| 00:59:02 | evan | since we use zip(4) for that now. |
| 00:59:12 | drbrain | ar + gzip |
| 00:59:38 | evan | so, be sure there is a shell script that works then |
| 00:59:43 | evan | otherwise, go for it. |
| 00:59:53 | drbrain | there's a giant block of commented out code in here too |
| 00:59:59 | drbrain | with marshal_object, inside it |
| 01:00:01 | evan | yeah |
| 01:00:03 | evan | nuke it. |
| 01:00:07 | evan | from orbit. |
| 01:01:26 | boyscout | 5 commits by Eric Hodel |
| 01:01:27 | boyscout | * Remove unused functions; 9455ed2 |
| 01:01:28 | boyscout | * Add REFACTOR note; d5b90f8 |
| 01:01:29 | boyscout | * Fix Hash#key? to work with objects that have the same #hash.; 3d4f877 |
| 01:01:30 | boyscout | * Add IPSocket::getaddress; 785dc8d |
| 01:01:31 | boyscout | * Fix Marshal format version check; f814a15 |
| 01:05:50 | ircleuser leaves the room. | |
| 01:06:13 | drbrain | ha, leuser |
| 01:06:36 | rue | Evening |
| 01:06:44 | headius leaves the room. | |
| 01:06:49 | evan | rue: yo |
| 01:08:51 | drbrain | I should have run time before `gem list -r rake` |
| 01:09:55 | boyscout | 1 commit by Ryan Davis |
| 01:09:56 | boyscout | * Knocked off the last of the method excludes.; b00f04e |
| 01:10:44 | rue | Woo |
| 01:11:20 | rue | I usually do not go for it but the wife says she got a full rack of ribs from TRH.. sweetness |
| 01:11:55 | rue | Now if I could only get the hell out of this place |
| 01:12:44 | drbrain | wow, only nine minutes for `gem list -r rake` |
| 01:12:48 | zenspider | haha... only |
| 01:13:01 | evan | hah |
| 01:13:18 | drbrain | that included a bulk index update |
| 01:15:07 | drbrain | aww, Zlib stream error |
| 01:15:13 | drbrain | after 1m49.424s |
| 01:15:39 | drbrain | I tried to install rake |
| 01:20:04 | rubuildius | Ryan Davis: b00f04ec0; 4669 examples, 17079 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 01:20:05 | rubuildius | Eric Hodel: 9455ed2ea; 4666 examples, 17076 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 01:21:13 | djwhitt enters the room. | |
| 01:23:16 | drbrain | so, looks like I need to do more zlib.rb work |
| 01:23:38 | evan | drbrain: did ya get the error trying to unpack the gem? |
| 01:23:50 | drbrain | I think so |
| 01:24:21 | drbrain | interesting, I'm getting a lot of these: |
| 01:24:32 | drbrain | Exception: No method 'coerce' on an instance of String. (NoMethodError) |
| 01:24:41 | evan | hrm |
| 01:24:52 | drbrain | with --debug |
| 01:26:25 | drbrain | nope, the Zlib error came from normalize_yaml_input |
| 01:26:31 | drbrain | which is in the gemspec |
| 01:26:47 | drbrain | so, almost to unpacking the gem |
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| 01:34:09 | zenspider | is there a MAX_LONG equiv in rubinius? |
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| 01:40:07 | boyscout | 1 commit by Ryan Davis |
| 01:40:08 | boyscout | * StringIO#seek now raises if passed bignum offset - should be platform specific, but ...; 206399a |
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| 01:43:20 | boyscout | 1 commit by Ryan Davis |
| 01:43:21 | boyscout | * removed empty excludes; 751293c |
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| 01:54:16 | rubuildius | Ryan Davis: 751293c1e; 4669 examples, 17079 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 01:54:42 | tongueroo enters the room. | |
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| 01:57:33 | boyscout | 1 commit by Ryan Davis |
| 01:57:35 | boyscout | * Added a TODO for platform specific check on StringIO#seek; a705295 |
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| 02:02:39 | rue | zenspider: There is ML2N but that may or may not be what you were looking for |
| 02:03:37 | tongueroo_ leaves the room. | |
| 02:06:32 | zenspider | rue: too low I think |
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| 02:07:08 | zenspider | dinner... |
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| 02:09:23 | rubuildius | Ryan Davis: a7052955c; 4669 examples, 17079 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 02:13:35 | rue | Hm. I might just get a Toshiba portable and sate my Mac yearning with an iMac. Decisions, decisions. |
| 02:13:57 | brixen | rue: imac is fun! |
| 02:14:02 | brixen | but not portable in the least |
| 02:14:37 | rue | Heh, no. But soooo pretty |
| 02:14:47 | rue | I think I could cajole the woman to go for it :P |
| 02:14:53 | ezmobius | fixed Regexp#inspect |
| 02:14:57 | rue | Nice! |
| 02:15:02 | ezmobius | anyone want to apply my pathc with specs? |
| 02:15:02 | ezmobius | http://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/tickets/309-regexp-inspect-doesn-t-match-mri-s-out put |
| 02:15:07 | brixen | yeah, I went with the bluetooth keyboard and mouse, which are really nice, except that the mouse goes wonky a fair bit |
| 02:15:40 | rue | The Toshiba 13" are pretty nice |
| 02:15:47 | brixen | rue: do like I did, promise her "we'll share it" :P |
| 02:16:27 | rue | Exactly :) |
| 02:16:51 | brixen | ezmobius: I could apply in a bit, unless someone wants to first |
| 02:16:59 | ezmobius | no rush |
| 02:17:13 | rue | I am way behind HEAD at this point so go ahead, brixen. Think everyone is to dinner |
| 02:17:42 | rue | ezmobius: Also, I think it would probably be safe to poke evan for a bit :) |
| 02:17:53 | brixen | rue: heh, I'm way behind HEAD too, but I see a peep of light at the end of this tunnel |
| 02:17:57 | ezmobius | ;) |
| 02:18:24 | brixen | heh, certain rules can be bent <taps fingers> |
| 02:18:42 | rue | At this pace we will be at the forefront of 128-bit computing 'cause I think 64 is not enough ;) |
| 02:22:12 | MenTaLguY enters the room. | |
| 02:22:47 | rue | brixen: Og is giving the least fight |
| 02:22:58 | brixen | interesting |
| 02:23:06 | brixen | is the project still going? |
| 02:26:06 | rue | When I get home, probably |
| 02:26:33 | brixen | heh, I mean is Og still active |
| 02:27:01 | rue | Yeah, looks like although it is pretty stable. Looks like mostly Nitro is being developed |
| 02:27:16 | rue | Latest commits are couple days old |
| 02:28:16 | brixen | that's cool |
| 02:28:23 | tongueroo leaves the room. | |
| 02:28:41 | rue | I still had to fight a little with Og too, but it is by far the most flexible of the three |
| 02:29:20 | rue | The main problem with it was setting up the specs, too. It requires a teardown which does not really exist so I had to improvise a bit |
| 02:29:31 | aotearoa_ enters the room. | |
| 02:29:54 | brixen | hmm, you going to release your project? |
| 02:29:57 | rue | Erm, the specs require a teardown |
| 02:30:21 | rue | Mm, probably. I dunno if anyone else would be interested |
| 02:30:39 | brixen | probably would |
| 02:30:50 | aotearoa leaves the room. | |
| 02:30:55 | rue | I am not sure I explained it but the very basic idea is that you associate Tangents, collections of notes, with directories |
| 02:31:08 | obvio171 enters the room. | |
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| 02:31:19 | rue | So if /foo/bar has a Tangent, any notes written in that directory or deeper will be recorded in that Tangent |
| 02:31:31 | brixen | so, when you are browsing your directories, you can go off on a tangent? :) |
| 02:31:38 | rue | The program itself is usually aliased to something like 'todo' or 'note' or even '--' |
| 02:31:47 | brixen | sounds cool |
| 02:31:49 | rue | So I can just -- remember to buy milk |
| 02:31:54 | brixen | nice |
| 02:32:06 | brixen | all whilst working away on the command line |
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| 02:32:11 | rue | Yeah |
| 02:32:16 | brixen | sounds like a good gtd tool |
| 02:32:21 | brixen | always at your fingertips |
| 02:32:22 | brixen | heh |
| 02:32:41 | brixen | sounds really useful actually |
| 02:32:45 | rue | I thought about maybe offering a hook so that the note can also be sent somewhere else but I do not need it myself |
| 02:32:58 | rue | Yeah.. one nifty thing is that the database used depends on the program name |
| 02:33:31 | rue | So `note This is interesting` and `todo Fix syswrite` go in different DBs |
| 02:33:44 | brixen | hmm, why dat? |
| 02:33:58 | rue | To avoid note todo blah |
| 02:34:06 | brixen | oh sure |
| 02:34:17 | brixen | who cares how many db's you have |
| 02:34:17 | rue | It is all about the least possible keystrokes |
| 02:34:21 | brixen | totally |
| 02:35:03 | rue | The notes are organized in Chapters so you can basically tag stuff. If you have a set of todos or notes all done, you can tag it and open up a new Chapter to separate the stuff |
| 02:35:31 | brixen | so, you can mark it done from the cli? |
| 02:35:47 | brixen | or you do that at the web interface? |
| 02:35:47 | rue | Well, you can mark an individual todo done too |
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| 02:36:27 | rue | So if I have `todo Fix blah` I can later do `todo --strike /Fix blah` to mark that one as completed or something |
| 02:36:40 | brixen | ok |
| 02:36:45 | rue | And then the Chapters group sets of notes |
| 02:37:08 | rue | That should be /Fix blah/ there, as a regexp |
| 02:37:54 | rue | I think it will be very handy for me at least. So I will probably push out a 0.1 and see if anyone else finds it useful |
| 02:39:18 | rue | The main thing I like though is that I can just put a tangent on my $rubinius_top_dir and all notes etc. for the various repos go in the same place |
| 02:39:52 | rue | Optionally you can of course select a different path to use or a tangent name or whatever but by default depends on the directory you are in |
| 02:40:05 | rue | Anyway, meeting--be back :P |
| 02:40:08 | brixen | heh |
| 02:40:08 | brixen | ok |
| 02:40:14 | brixen | sounds useful, I'll beta test :) |
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| 03:04:41 | manveru | nice, finally all specs pass :D |
| 03:05:42 | manveru | IPAddr still has some bugs, but at least it's working somewhat |
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| 03:09:52 | brixen | sweet, almost there: http://pastie.org/147590 |
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| 06:06:14 | rue | Come on now, we need to start pulling straws on LH maintenance days soon |
| 06:12:50 | headius | LH? |
| 06:12:53 | headius | oh, lighthouse |
| 06:13:28 | brixen | rue: indeed |
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| 07:20:24 | zenspider | (context: lexing ruby) can someone come up with an example of an 'e' trailing '1e2'? |
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| 07:24:06 | manveru | no, but the fun snippet %qe1e2ee |
| 07:24:38 | zenspider | hah |
| 07:24:43 | zenspider | gah. that's gross |
| 07:24:52 | zenspider | too much shit syntax in ruby. :/ |
| 07:25:06 | rue | 1.9 has --no-shit |
| 07:25:35 | zenspider | uh huh... |
| 07:25:38 | manveru | hehe, irb1.9 exits on that... |
| 07:26:36 | manveru | feels dirty and goes washing his hands |
| 07:26:39 | rue | zenspider: And you did not believe me! |
| 07:27:36 | zenspider | it's a bug I ported over from jruby apparently. it allows it. |
| 07:27:53 | zenspider | I'm overhauling my lexer and it is SOOO gorgeous where it's been done |
| 07:28:22 | zenspider | formatted integers (0[odbx].+) went from 122 lines to 27 |
| 07:28:45 | rue | Very nice |
| 07:29:17 | rue | Morning, VVSiz |
| 07:30:11 | VVSiz | rue: and morning to you too :) |
| 07:30:53 | zenspider | I'm hoping for the same compression ratio throughout. :) |
| 07:31:01 | zenspider | considering my lexer is still 1688 lines. :/ |
| 07:32:32 | rue | Alright, I am going to turn in, early morning tomorrow |
| 07:32:33 | rue | Nite |
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| 07:45:54 | evan | ruby.net is dead. and then there were 4. |
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| 07:52:39 | brixen | evan: where did you see that? |
| 07:55:09 | zenspider | brixen: http://antoniocangiano.com/2008/02/04/rubynet-is-dead/ |
| 07:56:07 | brixen | ahh, thanks |
| 07:56:22 | zenspider | n/p |
| 07:56:56 | evan | i'm doing some VM cleanup and refactor |
| 07:57:06 | evan | so that I can properly introduce the Selector and SendSite classes |
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| 08:03:07 | evan | wtf. |
| 08:03:18 | evan | i'm getting a terrible moan in the audio of my MBP |
| 08:03:51 | evan | hahaha |
| 08:03:59 | evan | i had find815.com open in the background |
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| 08:05:46 | zenspider | do I even want to know? |
| 08:05:53 | evan | it's for Lost |
| 08:06:10 | evan | there was a fake commercial on ABC for Oceanic Airlines |
| 08:06:18 | evan | that is "hacked" and flashes the URL. |
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| 08:07:49 | rue | Oh, and remember to vote. |
| 08:07:56 | evan | oh i will. |
| 08:08:03 | evan | rue: we'll all vote twice since you don't get to |
| 08:08:07 | rue | Sweet |
| 08:08:31 | rue | Back to back to getting to bed, nite |
| 08:08:36 | evan | nite |
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| 08:15:26 | zenspider | ours is on the 19th... and useless afaik |
| 08:15:36 | evan | yeah, i saw. |
| 08:15:41 | evan | that sucks. |
| 08:15:45 | evan | it's crazy nuts here |
| 08:19:39 | zenspider | 61 replaced with 16... god I'm loving this |
| 08:19:49 | evan | hehe |
| 08:19:52 | evan | going well then? |
| 08:19:55 | zenspider | AND fixed a bug in the jruby code at the same time |
| 08:20:09 | thehcdreamer enters the room. | |
| 08:20:48 | zenspider | very. sooo happy to be ripping this up finally |
| 08:21:13 | zenspider | 1000 line diff just on the impl so far |
| 08:21:23 | evan | NICE. |
| 08:23:29 | brixen | this is a little better: http://pastie.org/147684 |
| 08:23:55 | zenspider | evan: check it: http://rafb.net/p/Rwnya678.html |
| 08:24:03 | evan | brixen: heh, yeah, SLIGHTLY :) |
| 08:24:17 | brixen | zenspider: sweet |
| 08:24:43 | evan | zenspider: hah! so awesome. |
| 08:24:52 | evan | zenspider: plus, i can actually UNDERSTAND the logic |
| 08:24:59 | brixen | evan: I think there's more than a couple places that Array will benefit from the new #copy_from |
| 08:25:09 | zenspider | 188 lines removed, replaced with 37 |
| 08:25:24 | epitron enters the room. | |
| 08:25:44 | evan | brixen: awesome |
| 08:25:45 | zenspider | evan: exactly... you cut through the swaths of bullshit and all of a sudden *BAM* you can see patterns clear as day and clean em up even more |
| 08:25:54 | evan | brixen: we need to reworking String to use the move_bytes primitive too |
| 08:25:59 | evan | brixen: that should improve performance a lot. |
| 08:26:03 | brixen | k |
| 08:26:14 | brixen | I'm dying to work on this stuff :P |
| 08:26:17 | evan | the code moves data in a string using String#[], one fixnum at a time |
| 08:26:25 | brixen | yikes |
| 08:26:25 | evan | the code now, that is. |
| 08:27:04 | epitron | what what? there's a trick to cutting through swaths of bullshit? :) |
| 08:27:22 | epitron | please enlighten! |
| 08:27:22 | zenspider | 209 lines removed from impl, only 109 lines added to tests |
| 08:27:47 | brixen | evan: so, the new mspec scripts run Dir.glob in rubinius, which will cause a bit of a perf hit until we can optimize a bit, are you ok with me checking that in? |
| 08:28:01 | evan | how much slower are things? |
| 08:28:05 | evan | twice? |
| 08:28:07 | evan | just curious. |
| 08:28:08 | brixen | not sure yet |
| 08:28:13 | evan | should be fine. |
| 08:28:15 | brixen | I have to finish bin/ci |
| 08:28:16 | evan | go for it. |
| 08:28:26 | brixen | ok, I should wrap it up tomorrow |
| 08:28:41 | zenspider | epitron: write a fuck ton of tests, drink lots of dr. programmer, dream in code, hope for good luck |
| 08:29:04 | evan | when in doubt, reach for the doctor. |
| 08:29:06 | epitron | that's not a trick... that's just hard work. :( |
| 08:29:18 | brixen | 99% perspiration... |
| 08:29:20 | zenspider | oh. yeah. that. |
| 08:29:23 | zenspider | :P |
| 08:29:37 | zenspider | oh... right... sorry: |
| 08:29:39 | evan | the key to better code: Live in the code. |
| 08:29:40 | zenspider | EMACS! |
| 08:29:45 | zenspider | ducks |
| 08:29:48 | epitron | haha |
| 08:30:04 | evan | i'm going to talk about how having a life makes you a better programmer at actsasconference |
| 08:30:26 | epitron | having a life.... in the code? |
| 08:30:27 | epitron | :) |
| 08:30:44 | evan | love your code, but do other things. |
| 08:30:45 | zenspider | evan: agreed |
| 08:30:46 | epitron | that sounds like a good talk. |
| 08:31:01 | zenspider | love your code, just don't LOVE your code. ;) |
| 08:31:13 | epitron | keep the mind vigorous and healthy |
| 08:31:20 | evan | i'm going to talk about studies that show your subconscience is VASTLY superior to your conscience at figuring out hard problems |
| 08:31:41 | evan | take a walk in the park, you'd be surprised how much easier the code is to write after you get back. |
| 08:31:42 | epitron | my conscience is tied up in the corner :D |
| 08:31:47 | zenspider | I will say that emacs with autotest and colored rcov overlays has saved me a ton of time |
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| 08:32:03 | epitron | evan: sleep too |
| 08:32:12 | epitron | there's some spiffy neuroscience theory that shows why sleep makes you smart |
| 08:32:12 | evan | course. |
| 08:32:12 | zenspider | studies or "studies" |
| 08:32:15 | boyscout | 1 commit by Brian Ford |
| 08:32:16 | boyscout | * Changed Tuple#copy_from to take a destination index.; f0401f9 |
| 08:32:20 | evan | zenspider: NPR |
| 08:32:37 | evan | so, whatever thats worth. |
| 08:32:41 | epitron | it has to do with encoding patterns in high dimensional spaces using connectionist architectures |
| 08:32:45 | epitron | buzzword city man |
| 08:32:45 | evan | i consider them better researched than me |
| 08:33:17 | zimbatm enters the room. | |
| 08:33:36 | zenspider | I remember being stuck on a bad bug while at amazon... perl code no less. I went to bed, dreamed in code... actually I was flying through/over the code and landed ON the bug. I woke up, went to my lappy, logged into work, edited the line, and went back to sleep |
| 08:33:52 | evan | heh |
| 08:33:58 | zenspider | evan: have you read on intelligence yet? |
| 08:34:07 | evan | the human mind is NOT RAM. |
| 08:34:12 | evan | it's completely relational. |
| 08:34:18 | evan | and you need time to build the proper relationships |
| 08:34:18 | nitay enters the room. | |
| 08:34:24 | zenspider | I'd highly recommend it |
| 08:34:24 | evan | like fitting together very complicated shapes. |
| 08:34:28 | Smirnov enters the room. | |
| 08:34:30 | evan | hm... |
| 08:34:36 | evan | i think i've skimmed it.. |
| 08:34:41 | evan | i have a great neuroscience book |
| 08:34:41 | tarcieri | On Intelligence rocks |
| 08:34:41 | tarcieri | Jeff Hawkins is my god |
| 08:34:51 | evan | i'll have to get On Intelligence |
| 08:35:05 | epitron | jeff hawkins is great because he's grounded in reality :) |
| 08:35:53 | zenspider | evan: it is really good. |
| 08:36:01 | evan | i'm also going to talk about how you're not the best programmer you know. no matter who you are. |
| 08:36:19 | tarcieri | He's grounded in neuroscience |
| 08:36:19 | tarcieri | Unlike, say, Kurzweil, Minsky, or even Hofstadter |
| 08:36:19 | tarcieri | Though I have infinite respect for Hofstadter |
| 08:36:40 | tarcieri | evan: It's really hard to gauge how good of a programmer anyone is, although I've got to say I have a lot of respect for you, heh |
| 08:36:43 | epitron | all this talk makes me miss kathy sierra |
| 08:37:07 | evan | tarcieri: well thanks! |
| 08:37:27 | epitron | tarcieri: well, what i mean by "grounded in reality" is pragmatic |
| 08:37:33 | evan | I love it, so that makes me quite lucky. |
| 08:37:33 | epitron | tarcieri: those guys you mention are all very mathy |
| 08:37:36 | epitron | except kurzweil |
| 08:37:41 | epitron | but he's not really a brain guy, he's more of a statistics guy :) |
| 08:38:25 | tarcieri | hard to say what Kurzweil is |
| 08:38:31 | ctennis enters the room. | |
| 08:38:36 | epitron | he's a madman is what he is! :) |
| 08:38:49 | epitron | that guy processes way too much information |
| 08:39:11 | tarcieri | Heh |
| 08:39:11 | tarcieri | A smart guy who's... overly speculative |
| 08:39:32 | tarcieri | Jeff Hawkins is immediately focused on the science which is something I can really respect |
| 08:39:55 | epitron | he's got a weird way of speaking too.. every time i've seen kurzweil talk, he's sounded really depressed and bored |
| 08:40:10 | epitron | and he blinks 5000 times a second |
| 08:40:31 | epitron | but yes, he's a genius and he's contributed many intereseting things |
| 08:40:45 | geekounet leaves the room. | |
| 08:40:47 | tarcieri | It might have something to do with the 250+ dietary supplements and "nutriceuticals" which he taks every day |
| 08:40:58 | epitron | haha |
| 08:41:01 | epitron | that's true |
| 08:41:11 | epitron | i don't know what he was like before all that |
| 08:41:17 | tarcieri | Sane? |
| 08:41:18 | tarcieri | Heh |
| 08:41:27 | epitron | that's a bold claim! |
| 08:41:43 | rubuildius | Brian Ford: f0401f9dc; build failed! http://rafb.net/p/ucnGOq61.html |
| 08:42:50 | brixen | what's this rmdl60.so ? |
| 08:43:28 | evan | brixen: it looks like something is wrong with lib/bin/compile.rb on that machine |
| 08:43:50 | brixen | I'm checking on my parallels ubuntu |
| 08:43:55 | evan | k |
| 08:45:20 | zenspider | god I wish I could keep up this conversion ratio |
| 08:47:16 | arzoNaN enters the room. | |
| 08:47:24 | tarcieri | zenspider: So what's your take on cortico-thalamo-cortical loops? |
| 08:48:27 | zenspider | tarcieri: I don't think I have "a take" |
| 08:48:45 | tarcieri | heh |
| 08:49:54 | tarcieri | zenspider: You've seen this, right? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2500845581503718756 |
| 08:50:26 | zenspider | no |
| 08:51:21 | tarcieri | It's pretty interesting, especially the Q&A at the end (though skip the introductions and go right to Jeff) |
| 08:51:24 | pkondzior_ leaves the room. | |
| 08:51:44 | epitron | evan: i was thinking about why having a life helps you code better, and i think part of it is also simply mental fatigue.. :) |
| 08:51:57 | epitron | you get diminishing returns as you work longer and longer |
| 08:52:05 | epitron | also you tend to lose track of the big picture |
| 08:52:44 | wifelette_afk leaves the room. | |
| 08:52:46 | tarcieri | Less insanity in your life is helpful for the coding, or just in general... somehow I can't shake the insanity, heh |
| 08:53:11 | epitron | it's tempting to keep working, because when you start working, it can take an hour to fully get up to speed... to load your brain up with all the context you need to start editing your code |
| 08:53:32 | epitron | tarcieri: yeah... insanity abounds :) |
| 08:53:50 | epitron | i've always wanted to buckle down and implement GTD |
| 08:53:59 | epitron | it sounds so ... ninja |
| 08:54:13 | defunkt enters the room. | |
| 08:56:21 | TheVoice | evening gents |
| 08:56:32 | epitron | yeaux |
| 08:58:00 | TheVoice | tarcieri: MWMR sucks |
| 08:58:23 | tarcieri | ? |
| 08:58:34 | TheVoice | multiple writers multiple readers |
| 08:58:42 | TheVoice | concurrency nightmares |
| 08:59:25 | epitron | biology solves that problem with redundancy :) |
| 08:59:38 | epitron | or maybe i'm thinking of google |
| 08:59:39 | epitron | either wy |
| 08:59:42 | epitron | +a |
| 08:59:45 | zenspider | an hour? I'm either in the zone within 20 minutes or I'm not getting in |
| 08:59:49 | TheVoice | what do you do when 5 people are updating the same piece of data simultaneously? |
| 09:00:08 | epitron | depends on the piece of data and the people |
| 09:00:09 | pkondzior enters the room. | |
| 09:00:20 | tarcieri | TheVoice: oh |
| 09:00:23 | tarcieri | TheVoice: I try to limit my programs to multiple writers to a single reader, or multible readers from a single writer... |
| 09:00:34 | tarcieri | multiple... |
| 09:00:35 | epitron | TheVoice: you ever looked into transactional memory? |
| 09:00:44 | epitron | i thought that was a very elegant solution to concurrency problems |
| 09:00:45 | TheVoice | epitron: its not that low level |
| 09:00:57 | zenspider | TheVoice: I try my best to realize that almost all of those problems are made up in the first place |
| 09:01:18 | TheVoice | yeah I would like it to be a made up problem |
| 09:01:37 | TheVoice | You know you have a problem when you get a lot of deadlocks |
| 09:01:44 | epitron | TheVoice: well the kinda fundamental idea behind transactional memory is that when you have tons of parallelism, computing power is cheap... so if there's some conflict, throw it away and do it over again :) |
| 09:01:45 | TheVoice | and retrying transactions isn't the solution |
| 09:01:48 | epitron | it's an elegant solution |
| 09:02:06 | epitron | i dunno if that applies to you |
| 09:02:22 | TheVoice | not really |
| 09:02:37 | tarcieri | Scatter/gather isn't an elegant solution, but it's a pragmatic one |
| 09:02:47 | epitron | why isn't it elegant? |
| 09:02:54 | epitron | it's simple and powerful |
| 09:02:57 | epitron | isn't that elegance? |
| 09:02:58 | epitron | :) |
| 09:03:04 | tarcieri | Because it's "wasteful" |
| 09:03:10 | epitron | yeah but everything is wasteful |
| 09:03:12 | TheVoice | I would have to break out of a relational database to fix this I think. |
| 09:03:18 | epitron | waste is relative |
| 09:03:23 | tarcieri | Yep |
| 09:03:26 | TheVoice | at least to do it properly |
| 09:03:36 | epitron | our entire universe is slowly dying a heat death and will ultimately disappear |
| 09:03:44 | epitron | that's wasteful! :) |
| 09:03:56 | epitron | everything else is just shades below that |
| 09:03:58 | tarcieri | The nodes performing the "scatter" end of the computation (may) often do the same thing over and over and over again |
| 09:04:55 | epitron | hold on, i don't actually know what scatter-gather is |
| 09:05:13 | epitron | oh, google |
| 09:05:17 | TheVoice | yep |
| 09:05:26 | TheVoice | split the data, get it computed on, get it back |
| 09:05:36 | epitron | google isn't quite what i mean though because it has a big bottleneck |
| 09:05:41 | evan | wtf. |
| 09:05:43 | epitron | it waits for everything before gathering |
| 09:05:48 | evan | my upstairs neighbor is vacuuming. |
| 09:05:50 | evan | at 1am. |
| 09:05:57 | zenspider | haha |
| 09:06:12 | epitron | crumbs wait for no man |
| 09:06:19 | tarcieri | evan: Nothing wrong with that |
| 09:06:20 | tarcieri | Heh |
| 09:06:25 | TheVoice | I didn't think they allowed vacuums in hollywood |
| 09:07:03 | epitron | just look between an actor's ears man |
| 09:07:09 | epitron | *rimshot* |
| 09:08:36 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 09:08:37 | boyscout | * Corrected IO test to not interfere with Kernel#puts tests.; c5f9381 |
| 09:09:14 | epitron | tarcieri: but yeah, i wasn't talking about scatter gather.. i was just saying that i thought that the way transatcional memory solves conflicts is elegant |
| 09:09:37 | TheVoice | didn't you say it just keeps retrying? |
| 09:09:46 | epitron | you don't always have to be perfectly optimal when you have tons of parallelism |
| 09:09:54 | epitron | there's tons of waste inherent in locking and all that |
| 09:10:37 | epitron | but since we're not talking about anything specific, i can't go into more detail :) |
| 09:10:39 | tarcieri | epitron: I'm a big fan of shared-nothing approaches |
| 09:10:52 | tarcieri | The work well for pretty much everything that involves massive parallelism |
| 09:10:58 | epitron | that's optimal |
| 09:10:59 | TheVoice | there is locking in shared nothing though isn't there? |
| 09:11:19 | tarcieri | (they) |
| 09:11:22 | tarcieri | TheVoice: no |
| 09:11:36 | TheVoice | doesn't an actor block while its doing work on its message? |
| 09:11:52 | tarcieri | At the same time it can be receiving messages to process later |
| 09:12:00 | TheVoice | so its queing |
| 09:12:34 | tarcieri | Your brain is a shared-nothing architecture |
| 09:12:34 | tarcieri | It's not liek a neuron "blocks" while it's processing the incoming neurotransmitters |
| 09:12:47 | tarcieri | ugh, my intarweb sucks tonight |
| 09:12:51 | TheVoice | what if two actors are doing updates to the same piece of data? |
| 09:12:58 | tarcieri | They can't |
| 09:13:02 | tarcieri | There's no shared state |
| 09:13:07 | epitron | spacetime is a shared nothing architecture |
| 09:13:10 | tarcieri | Unless it's Erlang and you're talking about ETS |
| 09:13:21 | TheVoice | I'm just talking in generalities |
| 09:13:35 | TheVoice | of having a system which is lockless but allows multiple concurrent updates to the same data |
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| 09:14:06 | epitron | tarcieri: the brain does synch at higher levels though... |
| 09:14:14 | epitron | the hippocampus |
| 09:14:23 | epitron | err |
| 09:14:28 | epitron | the hypothalamus? |
| 09:14:29 | tarcieri | In a true shared nothing architecture there's no way anything can "update" the same piece of data, because data is localized to shared nothing prcesses |
| 09:14:40 | TheVoice | epitron: you were just looking for an opportunity to use that word. |
| 09:14:41 | tarcieri | processes... |
| 09:14:44 | epitron | haha |
| 09:15:09 | epitron | i'm also waiting for a chance to use pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis |
| 09:15:15 | epitron | it comes up so rarely |
| 09:15:17 | TheVoice | tarcieri: yeah I get that, so you have one actor which has a queue of updates to the same piece of data, right? |
| 09:15:35 | TheVoice | since hes the only actor that can do work on that data |
| 09:16:16 | tarcieri | How an Actor mutates its state is time-dependent... |
| 09:16:41 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: c5f9381ee; build failed! http://rafb.net/p/hJaXaN72.html |
| 09:18:41 | zenspider | what's up with that failure? |
| 09:20:27 | VVSiz | whooohoo! :) |
| 09:20:32 | VVSiz | and it's not me |
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| 09:43:51 | boyscout | 1 commit by Brian Ford |
| 09:43:52 | boyscout | * New stables.; c46d133 |
| 09:44:01 | brixen | le'see if that fixes it |
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| 09:44:50 | evan | yep |
| 09:44:53 | evan | that did it. |
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| 09:48:34 | ezmobius | i'm pretty damned impressed with how far rubinius has come. once i fixed that Regexp#escape bug i am able to compile and run merb-core, erubis, abstract, rack and webrick. only change i had to do was not use StringScanner |
| 09:48:52 | ezmobius | thats pretty badass |
| 09:49:08 | evan | awesome! |
| 09:50:48 | brixen | oh yeah, I was going to commit that, huh |
| 09:51:10 | brixen | unless evan just wants to give you a bit :) |
| 09:51:38 | evan | he needs to get his first patch in first :) |
| 09:51:55 | brixen | heh, ok |
| 09:51:57 | brixen | one sec.. |
| 09:52:54 | brixen | compiling rbx is a lot faster on my mbp than on the ey slice |
| 09:53:42 | ezmobius | evan: i submitted my first patch and specs here: http://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/tickets/309-regexp-inspect-doesn-t-match-mri-s-out put |
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| 09:54:04 | brixen | ezmobius: I'm applying them now |
| 09:54:25 | ezmobius | i think i'm going to get adicted to workig on rubinius now |
| 09:54:47 | rubuildius | Brian Ford: c46d133e2; 4669 examples, 17079 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 09:55:05 | brixen | that's better |
| 09:57:13 | evan | alright |
| 09:57:15 | evan | i'm headed to bed. |
| 09:57:20 | TheVoice | agreed |
| 09:57:39 | ezmobius | nite |
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| 09:58:52 | boyscout | 1 commit by Brian Ford |
| 09:58:53 | boyscout | * Ezra's patch for Regexp#inspect, #309.; dfb941d |
| 09:59:03 | ezmobius | \m/ |
| 09:59:49 | brixen | :D |
| 10:09:45 | rubuildius | Brian Ford: dfb941da0; 4670 examples, 17081 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 12:23:57 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 12:23:58 | boyscout | * New tests for IO.open, and additional cases for IO's inspect and stat.; 66f636c |
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| 12:27:56 | kAworu | still can't push :( |
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| 12:34:44 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: 66f636c34; 4670 examples, 17081 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 13:51:47 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 13:51:48 | boyscout | * New rubyspecs for File.open with block.; 95ac3cb |
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| 14:04:44 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: 95ac3cb99; 4671 examples, 17082 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 16:05:36 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 16:05:37 | boyscout | * Eliminated file descriptors leakage out of IO tests.; 6ad8a0a |
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| 16:19:45 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: 6ad8a0a25; 4671 examples, 17082 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 18:35:12 | evan | morning |
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| 18:39:42 | dbussink | evening :) |
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| 18:56:11 | boyscout | 1 commit by Wilson Bilkovich |
| 18:56:12 | boyscout | * Do not invoke irb when passed "-v" on the command line; ba24649 |
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| 19:00:48 | boyscout | 5 commits by Evan Phoenix |
| 19:00:50 | boyscout | * Add message struct and new selector and sendsite code.; 681156e |
| 19:00:51 | boyscout | * Fix depth calculation, remove dead code; e63c47d |
| 19:00:52 | boyscout | * More refactoring; 1809f72 |
| 19:00:53 | boyscout | * More switching to new dispatch API; af25e7d |
| 19:00:54 | boyscout | * Rework method lookup machinery to make it more extensible; 1ab25dd |
| 19:02:37 | evan | those commits clean up the VM wrt to method lookup / dispatch a ton. |
| 19:02:46 | evan | no more passing a zillion arguments. |
| 19:02:58 | brixen | awesome! |
| 19:03:06 | evan | there is a 'struct message' that you fill in |
| 19:03:15 | evan | and you pass a pointer to it down |
| 19:03:27 | evan | and that pointer gets passed around and filled in by the lookup code |
| 19:03:31 | evan | then dispatched from |
| 19:03:45 | brixen | sounds very cool |
| 19:03:54 | evan | the code is ton cleaner |
| 19:04:14 | brixen | is there some paper on this sort of thing? |
| 19:04:15 | evan | i was also able to bring the send/super dispatch lines together |
| 19:04:24 | evan | oh, probably. |
| 19:04:34 | evan | i wasn't working from one. |
| 19:04:43 | evan | this a technique that |