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| 00:14:09 | boyscout | 2 commits by Wilson Bilkovich |
| 00:14:10 | boyscout | * Add a failing spec for Array#join and then fix it; 73e4033 |
| 00:14:11 | boyscout | * Fetch format options in Moment#format directly from the constant; ff7be93 |
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| 00:20:01 | rue | Defiler: Really really tiny nitpick but split the spec commit from the fix if possible |
| 00:20:25 | Defiler | really? |
| 00:20:45 | Defiler | I've been putting them together so that there are no intermediate revisions where bin/ci fails |
| 00:20:55 | rue | Yeah, it allows reverting just the fix if it exposes an unintended feature :) |
| 00:21:12 | rue | But, as I said, really really tiny nitpick |
| 00:21:35 | Defiler | Also, why would anyone need to revert something I did? :) |
| 00:21:48 | rue | Well, we may need an exception for you ;) |
| 00:22:33 | rue | But for now, you will be listed as an exemplary committer so everyone is going to be looking up to you |
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| 00:23:00 | Defiler | haha. well, I will split such things in the future, just for grins |
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| 00:24:25 | rue | Danke schoen |
| 00:24:49 | rubuildius | Wilson Bilkovich: 73e40331c; 4693 examples, 17183 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 00:33:42 | headius | evenin |
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| 00:33:48 | rue | Hullo |
| 00:33:52 | rue | headius: From earlier |
| 00:33:57 | rue | 152056 < rue > That is a tricky one.. in some ways it is a language-level thing and in others, a library-level thing |
| 00:33:57 | rue | 152128 < rue > Setting the visibility is library, the affect of it on a method is language |
| 00:34:00 | rue | 152056 < rue > That is a tricky one.. in some ways it is a language-level thing and in others, a library-level thing |
| 00:34:00 | rue | 152128 < rue > Setting the visibility is library, the affect of it on a method is language |
| 00:34:08 | rue | Opps, sorry about doubling |
| 00:34:35 | headius | yeah, that's my conundrum too |
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| 00:34:58 | headius | the behavior of a method that's protected seems definitely language-level to me |
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| 00:37:16 | headius | I assume evan's settled in now |
| 00:38:34 | rue | Wowie, http://heroku.com/ |
| 00:39:23 | rue | headius: I would place the toggles in the library specs, just test them with #private_methods and whatever |
| 00:39:53 | rue | Then language specs would actually verify that method dispatch works correctly |
| 00:41:01 | headius | yeah |
| 00:41:09 | headius | seems like a good split |
| 00:41:47 | Defiler | headius: I vote that it should go in the 'private' spec, personally |
| 00:41:57 | headius | but it's not private, it's protected |
| 00:42:14 | Defiler | headius: evan should be at the hotel in 20 minutes or so |
| 00:42:23 | Defiler | Sorry, I meant 'protected' |
| 00:42:37 | headius | anyone else here besides evan and ezra? |
| 00:42:39 | headius | from EY that is |
| 00:42:42 | Defiler | I am |
| 00:42:56 | headius | oh yeah, and you :) |
| 00:43:00 | Defiler | haha ice cold |
| 00:45:58 | brixen | rue: library specs, core specs? |
| 00:46:02 | brixen | what are we spec'ing? |
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| 00:46:46 | brixen | hmm, every file we compile we stat compiler.rba 12 times :P |
| 00:46:53 | headius | so you were saying private spec? |
| 00:47:05 | brixen | headius: in core? |
| 00:47:11 | brixen | rue said something about library |
| 00:47:12 | brixen | I'm lost |
| 00:47:20 | headius | but there's also a private spec in language |
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| 00:47:24 | headius | I think he meant language |
| 00:47:31 | headius | or not |
| 00:47:57 | headius | toggling, setting visibility should be spec'ed in core, and the actual result of invoking methods of various visibilities should be in language |
| 00:47:59 | headius | agreed? |
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| 00:48:08 | brixen | we'll initially, the idea of private in language was because there's this word, 'private' that does certain things |
| 00:48:20 | brixen | headius: yeah, that seems sane |
| 00:48:24 | headius | yeah, I see the spec is worded wrong too, private referred to as a keyword |
| 00:48:52 | brixen | yeah, all of language is supposed to be for identifiable parts of the language, which are not always keywords, I suppose |
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| 00:48:56 | Defiler | Sounds like it should be in core/kernel/private_spec instead of in language |
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| 00:49:04 | brixen | something has to say what {} is and what if <blah> does |
| 00:49:26 | headius | kernel has nothing to do with the actual visbility behavior |
| 00:49:28 | brixen | perhaps none of private, public, protected should be in language |
| 00:49:32 | headius | it just sets visibility |
| 00:49:42 | Defiler | It does. |
| 00:49:49 | Defiler | You call this method (private), and then behavior changes |
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| 00:49:56 | Defiler | That is the whole API right there |
| 00:50:26 | headius | no |
| 00:50:26 | brixen | well, since I can redefine private at will in class Module |
| 00:50:28 | headius | definitely not |
| 00:50:33 | brixen | I say it should go in core and not language |
| 00:50:38 | headius | because private/protected invocation behavior depends on the form of call |
| 00:50:42 | headius | that's totally a language-level behavior |
| 00:50:56 | headius | self.foo versus foo triggers different visibility checks |
| 00:51:01 | brixen | headius: sounds like you've got a grasp of it, go ahead and put it where it makes sense |
| 00:51:06 | brixen | we can refine if needed |
| 00:51:10 | Defiler | I disagree, but not vehemently. :) |
| 00:51:23 | headius | not to mention locality of the method being in a singleton class, included module, and so on |
| 00:51:44 | headius | brixen: ok, will do |
| 00:51:58 | headius | after I get something to eat! |
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| 01:00:20 | rue | The public, private etc. are implemented fully in userspace |
| 01:00:23 | rue | So to speak |
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| 01:01:19 | rue | So my recommendation was to put only the method dispatch behaviour in language and the visibility setting in core (I was talking about language vs. library level which may be confusing) |
| 01:03:44 | brixen | rue: I agree with that, sounds like what headius said too |
| 01:03:51 | brixen | maybe he can clarify |
| 01:04:04 | brixen | either way, once we see the specs it'll probably be easier |
| 01:04:24 | brixen | btw, replacing stat is a bitch |
| 01:04:26 | Defiler | I'm fine with that. Personally, though, I see private/public/protected as just another method that does work when you call it |
| 01:05:15 | Defiler | ..but the other way is fine too of course |
| 01:08:57 | rue | Defiler: That part is correct |
| 01:09:18 | rue | But what about calling a method that was "worked" to be private? :) |
| 01:09:52 | rue | I guess you could assume that everything is done through __send__ |
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| 02:02:31 | brixen | bah, this is maddening |
| 02:02:36 | brixen | perhaps approach #4 will work |
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| 02:07:56 | rue | I have had a lot of success with #8 lately |
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| 03:41:34 | _ADS | hi anyone, what's in the "rt" stdlib? |
| 03:48:59 | rue | The what? |
| 03:49:14 | _ADS | librt in the standard library |
| 03:50:00 | _ADS | shotgun\lib\Makefile has a LIBS+= -lrt |
| 03:50:16 | _ADS | which is failing on cygwin |
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| 04:00:28 | Defiler | It's not part of the stdlib, it is a C library we link to |
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| 04:02:21 | Defiler | Actually, I just grepped for it, and I don't see any calls to the functions it has |
| 04:02:27 | Defiler | Try removing that part of the Makefile |
| 04:02:46 | Defiler | Might be a leftover |
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| 04:10:42 | _ADS | it works without it |
| 04:10:57 | _ADS | So here's my report on compiling under cygwin: |
| 04:11:06 | _ADS | lightning needs a minor patch |
| 04:11:15 | _ADS | ucontext needs a major workaround |
| 04:11:44 | _ADS | sys/sockets and tcpip need some love, but I think it's minor |
| 04:12:07 | _ADS | and I'm getting a link error looking for _crc32 from libzip |
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| 04:43:30 | rue | Hm, I need to write stuff in my journal again, I think |
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| 05:04:15 | brixen | yay, I can finally run bin/ci again |
| 05:09:11 | rue | Hurray |
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| 05:38:09 | boyscout | 1 commit by Adam Gardiner |
| 05:38:11 | boyscout | * Fix InstructionSet info for new opcode :meta_send_call; 2ffa558 |
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| 05:49:57 | rubuildius | Adam Gardiner: 2ffa558ee; 4693 examples, 17183 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 06:39:00 | thurston | Hi folks, does anyone know of any place I can find documentation on the lexical state variable employed in most ruby parsers? |
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| 06:50:36 | rue | thurston: Elaborate |
| 06:51:38 | thurston | I'd like to work on a grammar for Ruby, but the complexity of the lexer really throws me off. |
| 06:52:28 | thurston | the lexical state variable acts as feedback from the parser to the lexer, governing what lexical rules apply when particular grammar fragments are being parsed. |
| 06:53:08 | thurston | perhaps I should be asking in the ruby channel? I thought here because there seems to be interest in a ruby grammar in the rubinius community. |
| 06:53:41 | tarcieri | i think there's definitely interest in something like a racc parser... |
| 06:53:59 | thurston | racc is a ruby yacc? |
| 06:54:03 | tarcieri | yeah |
| 06:54:08 | rue | thurston: Still not sure what you are going for--you could mostly do without state in the lexer |
| 06:54:47 | rue | Erp, make that mostly do without knowing about Ruby's state variable in the lexer |
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| 06:55:39 | thurston | is the rubinius lexer stateless? I tried to find the parser in rubinius but with no luck, this seems like a different kind of compiler :) |
| 06:57:41 | rue | The parser is mostly MRI's, grammar.y |
| 06:57:53 | rue | You probably want to look at ruby_parser |
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| 06:59:08 | thurston | shotgun/lib/grammar.y ? |
| 07:00:50 | thurston | I had a quick look at ruby_parser earlier tonight. Seems to be yacc-based as well. I just have one more question for you if ya don't mind ... |
| 07:01:26 | thurston | is every ruby parser based on a yacc-ish grammar with a hand-written lexer? |
| 07:03:43 | rue | There is an ANTLR one out there, at least |
| 07:04:03 | tarcieri | there's so much weirdness in the Ruby lexer |
| 07:04:24 | tarcieri | particularly with treatment of whitespace |
| 07:04:38 | rue | Rockit is a LR |
| 07:05:36 | tarcieri | [ 4_2 , 6_4 , 8_9 ] [ 1 ] |
| 07:05:51 | scoopr | => 42 |
| 07:05:52 | tarcieri | => 64 |
| 07:05:55 | scoopr | heh |
| 07:06:00 | scoopr | 64 of course |
| 07:06:11 | tarcieri | *boggle* |
| 07:06:12 | scoopr | I'm still sleepy, maybe I should go brew coffee |
| 07:06:36 | thurston | so far I've looked at MRI, JRuby, Rubinus, ruby_parser, and IronRuby |
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| 07:06:53 | thurston | k, I'll look for rockit and the antlr one |
| 07:07:19 | scoopr | was the antlr one part of the xruby thing? |
| 07:07:26 | thurston | ah, ignored underscores in numbers! |
| 07:07:29 | thurston | different :) |
| 07:08:09 | tarcieri | heh |
| 07:08:24 | tarcieri | I got a really weird error yesterday |
| 07:08:35 | tarcieri | I was still thinking in Erlang and put a period on the end of a statement |
| 07:09:04 | tarcieri | so Ruby interpreted that as a method invocation, and used the stuff on the next line |
| 07:09:37 | tarcieri | not to mention you can have arbitrary whitespace on either side of a . |
| 07:10:04 | tarcieri | 1 . is_a? ( Fixnum ) |
| 07:10:06 | tarcieri | => true |
| 07:13:42 | thurston | i just found an ANTLR grammar in xruby, it appears to also have complicated hand-written lexer |
| 07:15:37 | thurston | thanks everyone, i'm out for now |
| 07:19:31 | brixen | yikes |
| 07:19:38 | brixen | was that adrian thurston? |
| 07:19:43 | brixen | guys! |
| 07:20:12 | brixen | teach me to go out partying |
| 07:20:25 | rue | Possibly |
| 07:20:30 | brixen | dammit |
| 07:20:37 | brixen | it most likely was |
| 07:20:38 | brixen | :( |
| 07:20:49 | brixen | http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cs.queensu.ca%2F~thurs ton%2F&ei=twKsR6-2FKbypgSt9PGaAw&usg=AFQjCNExQohBH_K0r_Agm5wWsdgnianHDw&sig2=zSNGkmKjaYw CdcJP6wuKtQ |
| 07:20:49 | rue | Hostname seems likely |
| 07:21:03 | brixen | stupid google links |
| 07:21:10 | brixen | www.cs.queensu.ca/~thurston/ |
| 07:21:17 | brixen | bummer |
| 07:21:22 | tarcieri | oh holy shit |
| 07:21:29 | tarcieri | the ragel guy? |
| 07:21:29 | brixen | tarcieri: yeah dude |
| 07:21:31 | brixen | yeah |
| 07:21:37 | brixen | and kelbt |
| 07:21:39 | tarcieri | damn |
| 07:21:43 | brixen | totally |
| 07:22:38 | brixen | so, nathan sobo (treetop guy) looked at the semantic undo actions in kelbt and said he was going to add something similar to treetop |
| 07:23:18 | brixen | I could have asked "the man" the relative benefits of kelbt over a PEG |
| 07:23:20 | TheVoice | lol are you guys ok? |
| 07:23:28 | brixen | I'm bummed |
| 07:23:49 | brixen | matz is coming to pdx this month though |
| 07:23:51 | TheVoice | star struck and issapointed |
| 07:23:55 | TheVoice | dissapointed |
| 07:24:05 | brixen | visiting a local VC incubator mentor group |
| 07:24:15 | rue | brixen: Well, I assume there is a reason why he was looking at Ruby parsers. |
| 07:24:25 | brixen | http://www.opentechcenter.com/drupal/index.php |
| 07:24:30 | brixen | with a contingent from japan |
| 07:24:33 | rue | But I cannot say anything more about that |
| 07:24:55 | brixen | I got an invite to the event |
| 07:25:09 | brixen | rue: yeah, I wish I had been here |
| 07:25:22 | brixen | blames it on the insanely hyperactive kitten |
| 07:25:58 | rue | Yep, he was probably going to write a superb PEG Ruby parser in a week but now he will not |
| 07:26:04 | rue | Because you were not here |
| 07:26:11 | rue | 'S all your fault |
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| 07:27:35 | TheVoice | now thats a guilt trip |
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| 07:27:47 | brixen | :( |
| 07:30:18 | brixen | hmm, looks like he's been up to something new I hadn't heard about yet |
| 07:30:25 | brixen | COmputer Language Manipulation |
| 07:31:18 | brixen | colm iz in ur prgmz, rewriting ur treez |
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| 07:40:38 | rue | ruby -rtime -e 'p Time.parse "id 1. hi there, how goes it? 1980.12.25 14:23"' |
| 07:40:40 | rue | Hee |
| 07:42:03 | brixen | helpful |
| 07:44:59 | brixen | man I wish primitives dispatched like regular methods |
| 07:45:07 | brixen | this has been agonizing |
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| 08:30:29 | rue | Good morning |
| 08:30:41 | rue | You will never believe who came by! |
| 08:30:45 | rue | The pope! |
| 08:32:20 | scoopr | that so sounds like a line from family guy |
| 08:38:50 | wycats | brixen: you at acts_as? |
| 08:41:18 | brixen | wycats: nope |
| 08:41:20 | brixen | are you? |
| 08:41:59 | wycats | yessiree |
| 08:42:37 | brixen | cool |
| 08:43:04 | brixen | I'm trying to get our File::Stat in the ballpark of mri |
| 08:43:07 | brixen | it's a bitch |
| 08:47:00 | dbussink | morning |
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| 09:03:48 | rue | scoopr: It is |
| 09:04:25 | scoopr | :) |
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| 09:25:01 | kwatch | Hi, I'm now starting rubinius. |
| 09:25:35 | rue | Hallo |
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| 09:31:03 | rue | Why, why does Lighthouse not allow full Textile? |
| 09:31:08 | rue | does not understand |
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| 10:20:26 | yaroslav | rue: seen DHH post on textile? "never ever" :-) |
| 10:22:48 | rue | I seem to recall hearing that |
| 10:26:02 | rue | Bah, radiant is confusing |
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| 11:12:04 | kwatch | Rubinius seems not to support File#flock(). Is it any plan to support it? |
| 11:12:53 | rue | brixen: I added a tiny snippet to link child pages automatically and a hack around Archive not working right |
| 11:13:14 | rue | kwatch: Sure, as soon as someone implements it :) |
| 11:13:51 | kwatch | thnak you. I hope it. |
| 11:20:42 | be9 | Hmm... A week ago I posted some patches (#296,297,298). Is there any chance they are going to be reviewed and/or committed? |
| 11:23:34 | rue | be9: I will play patch police this weekend at the latest, sorry it is taking so long |
| 11:24:00 | be9 | rue: thanks |
| 11:24:16 | rue | Thank YOU :) |
| 11:24:52 | rue | We will see if we can pester someone to take care of it tomorrow. Some of the guys are at the conference now, too |
| 11:26:38 | be9 | BTW, it was fun to find out that operator precedence table as of Pickaxe2ndEd is wrong |
| 11:27:16 | dbussink | what are the patches about? |
| 11:27:30 | dbussink | if there's no real problem with them, i could apply them |
| 11:27:49 | be9 | these are for language specs |
| 11:28:22 | dbussink | hmm, i see you have a patch in already |
| 11:28:37 | dbussink | you've tried to get commit access already? |
| 11:28:53 | be9 | no, these are my first 3 patches |
| 11:30:03 | dbussink | ah wait, i confused you with someone else :) |
| 11:30:10 | dbussink | who's last name actually is Nine :) |
| 11:30:37 | be9 | mine is be-nign :) |
| 11:31:09 | dbussink | yeah, but it thought it was also a reference to the last name :) |
| 11:31:11 | dbussink | but anyway |
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| 11:36:31 | dbussink | rue: the patches look pretty sane to me |
| 11:40:03 | rue | They look fine, yeah |
| 11:40:20 | rue | Just no-one applying them |
| 11:42:12 | dbussink | hmm, how do we work around the compiler bug that it triggers? |
| 11:45:31 | kwatch | [Q] Rubinius web site shows that ver 0.9 downloadable. but I cloned repository and installed, rubinius is installed into /usr/local/lib/rubinius/0.8. why? |
| 11:47:02 | yaroslav enters the room. | |
| 11:47:07 | dbussink | internally we apparently still call it 0.8 |
| 11:47:17 | rue | kwatch: I updated the page to clarify |
| 11:47:22 | dbussink | i don't know whether installing is actually supposed to work |
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| 11:47:46 | kwatch | OK. thank you |
| 11:54:14 | dbussink | rue: is there a way to work around the compiler bug that #296 triggers? |
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| 11:57:03 | boyscout | 1 commit by oleg dashevskii |
| 11:57:03 | boyscout | * Heredocs and more stuff added to string_spec.; 8cf27fc |
| 11:58:00 | rue | dbussink: Just guard it if needed |
| 11:58:18 | rue | fails_on |
| 12:00:02 | dbussink | rue: well, the problem is that the whole spec file can't be parsed |
| 12:00:21 | dbussink | and i don't know if there is a mechanism to indicate that |
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| 12:01:52 | rue | Ah, a parser bug |
| 12:02:15 | dbussink | be9: i got two of the three in |
| 12:03:24 | dbussink | rue: yeah, and it's a good thing this triggers it, but it's not good for ./bin/co |
| 12:03:27 | dbussink | ./bin/ci |
| 12:03:35 | be9 | dbussink, cool! |
| 12:03:49 | dbussink | be9: you know the drill for getting commit access? |
| 12:04:47 | rue | Argh, how is it even possible that this CSS selector can change the font size but not colour? |
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| 12:05:07 | be9 | rue: just got to the website %) |
| 12:05:59 | ctennis | is back |
| 12:07:06 | be9 | dbussink, what do you mean? |
| 12:07:39 | dbussink | be9: basically, if you have a patch applied, you can get commit access yourself |
| 12:08:34 | be9 | dbussink, ah, send my ssh key to evan? |
| 12:09:04 | dbussink | be9: yeah, but he's not in right now |
| 12:10:09 | rubuildius | oleg dashevskii: 8cf27fcd8; 4704 examples, 17212 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 12:10:18 | be9 | dbussink, i see :) |
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| 12:12:34 | dbussink | be9: the parser bug you triggered is pretty nasty though :) |
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| 12:19:33 | be9 | dbussink, that's already second time |
| 12:19:36 | ruivaldo leaves the room. | |
| 12:20:02 | be9 | rue, that bug with function calling seems not fixed? |
| 12:20:46 | rue | Which one, sorry? |
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| 12:21:15 | be9 | #293 |
| 12:21:31 | _maarten_ enters the room. | |
| 12:22:05 | dbussink | zimbatm: i see you've been looking at Math#asinh |
| 12:22:23 | dbussink | zimbatm: i've wasted some time on that too, it's a really weird problem |
| 12:22:42 | dbussink | zimbatm: there are some problems though with ffi which evan is investigating, it could be cause of this problem too |
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| 12:26:11 | rue | be9: Yep, it is definitely outstanding still |
| 12:26:36 | rue | I have not had any time to work on the compiler or parser this past week and a half |
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| 12:28:35 | be9 | rue, is there sense to add this to specs somehow? |
| 12:31:31 | rue | Definitely |
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| 12:33:52 | be9 | Could you then point me where it should belong to? |
| 12:35:15 | kwatch | [Q] is it possible to marshal/unmarshal Proc object to file using rubinius' bytecode? |
| 12:37:01 | rue | be9: Well, not sure.. method call specs would probably be best. Is the puts actually getting called first? |
| 12:38:46 | rue | kwatch: The .rbc marshal format does marshal blocks similarly to other methods |
| 12:39:18 | kwatch | what I want to do is to compile eRuby file into Proc object and save it to file as cache. |
| 12:40:17 | kwatch | is there API to marshal/unmarshal .rbc file? |
| 12:43:31 | rue | The proc still needs to run normally |
| 12:45:35 | kwatch | you mean that there is no API to marshal into/unmarshal from .rbc file? |
| 12:46:01 | rue | Not in the way I think you are wanting to use it |
| 12:48:38 | rue | If I understand you correctly, it would essentially require storing the entire state of the process (which is actually possible, not sure about feasibility) |
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| 12:52:31 | kwatch | OK. How about singleton method? If I create a certain object and define singleton method to it, is it possible to store the object into a file? |
| 12:56:27 | rue | Technically it is possible, yes. I think the current Marshal implementation is exactly like MRI, though |
| 12:56:43 | rue | kernel/core/marshal.rb has the public side |
| 12:58:41 | be9 | rue: can't actually find any method call specs :) maybe that better goes in sexp_expectations.rb? |
| 12:59:36 | be9 | I've simplified it down to this: http://pastie.caboo.se/149231 |
| 13:00:06 | be9 | "shotgun/rubinius describe" shows differents sexps for lines 2 and 5 |
| 13:03:15 | dbussink leaves the room. | |
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| 13:05:06 | rue | be9: Well, it is really a language-level construct |
| 13:05:23 | rue | In our case we can also have a compiler spec for it |
| 13:06:34 | rue | Hm, a parser spec actually |
| 13:09:01 | kwatch | OK, thank you. it seems hard to marshal Proc or so. |
| 13:09:43 | kwatch | Oh, "shotgun/rubnius describe" is interesting! it's fun! |
| 13:10:48 | rue | Yes, very useful |
| 13:11:07 | rue | shotgun/rubinius lib/compiler/describe.rb has a few more options |
| 13:15:09 | boyscout | 1 commit by Eero Saynatkari |
| 13:15:10 | boyscout | * Add graph.rb back into describe.rb to enable AST describing.; 818e6aa |
| 13:16:06 | rue | Well, now it does anyway |
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| 13:25:56 | rue | Good morning, conferencees |
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| 13:30:09 | rubuildius | Eero Saynatkari: 818e6aa03; 4704 examples, 17212 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 13:42:10 | headius | huzzah for conferences |
| 13:42:22 | headius | I need to mosey downstairs and sneak into the session |
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| 14:18:09 | rue | Quality connection over there, I can tell |
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| 14:29:34 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 14:29:35 | boyscout | * New specs for IO#new and IO#open, invoked with permissions parameter..; 2937669 |
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| 14:39:59 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: 293766955; 4706 examples, 17218 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 14:43:20 | _maarten | Just to throw some ideas: |
| 14:43:57 | _maarten | Would it be an idea to save the machine state to a file after rubinius has loaded in all necessary framework code like the bootstrap/platform and core code |
| 14:44:24 | _maarten | and reload it from the this file when run? |
| 14:44:48 | _maarten | These files never change and the rubinius runtime is always unmarshalling and running them for every invocation of rubinius |
| 14:45:16 | _maarten | goal of all this would be to decrease the initial startup time of rubinius |
| 14:48:43 | nro | sounds like a good idea to me |
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| 14:54:51 | netytan | Hi guys :) |
| 14:56:09 | manveru | oi |
| 14:56:18 | manveru | something's wrong with my blankslate... |
| 14:57:41 | netytan | :). I'm curious about assignment. It seems like it must be a primitive operation, but how would you go about making the semantics indistinguishable from those of a message send/method call? |
| 14:57:41 | manveru | http://p.ramaze.net/472 |
| 14:57:53 | manveru | does that blow up your rubinius as well? :) |
| 14:58:52 | netytan | I'd happily answer you, but I don't have rubunius installed; not since I reinstalled my computer. |
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| 15:06:49 | zimbatm | hi manveru . Not all "really necessary" methods are double__undercased. metaclass, and put are at least two of them |
| 15:07:11 | zimbatm | is_a? is also used in the core |
| 15:07:31 | zimbatm | respond_to? |
| 15:07:39 | zimbatm | ... |
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| 15:12:24 | manveru | zimbatm: well, i'm sorry, but that's running just fine on 1.8/1.9 :) |
| 15:14:17 | zimbatm | well it's because 1.8/.9 doesn't expose the internal implementations since it's all written in C |
| 15:15:06 | zimbatm | it will get better at some point if rubinius can build a barrier between the implementation and the runtime but it's not for tonight :) |
| 15:15:06 | manveru | ok, does rubinius have a BasicObject? |
| 15:16:18 | manveru | anw, i need sleep... gn8 :) |
| 15:16:44 | zimbatm | i don't think it does |
| 15:16:46 | zimbatm | good night |
| 15:18:02 | zimbatm | manveru, are you trying to run ramaze on rubinius ? |
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| 15:28:54 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 15:28:56 | boyscout | * Some more specs for File#new and File#open, and permissions.; 36e9749 |
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| 15:34:40 | Defiler | Holy crap Adrian Thurston was in here? |
| 15:36:56 | VVSiz | who is that? :) |
| 15:37:19 | VVSiz | is ignorant |
| 15:37:55 | scoopr | if I understood correctly, the ragel guy |
| 15:38:24 | VVSiz | oh |
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| 15:40:00 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: 36e974998; 4708 examples, 17223 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 15:59:58 | brixen | Defiler: yeah, holy crap, and I missed him by five minutes |
| 16:00:11 | brixen | later sacrificed the new kitten |
| 16:00:14 | brixen | damn kittens |
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| 16:00:43 | brixen | manveru: yeah, there's issues with BlankSlate in Builder, but I haven't look at them in depth |
| 16:02:39 | zimbatm | who's going to Euroko btw ? |
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| 16:13:13 | brixen | zimbatm: thinking about it, happen to have a link to it handy |
| 16:13:26 | brixen | needs to give his googlefu some coffee |
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| 16:20:06 | boyscout | 1 commit by Caleb Tennis |
| 16:20:07 | boyscout | * Use the -fPIC on x86/gcc as well.; 561b5a1 |
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| 16:28:02 | zimbatm | brixen, I have some addresses for the hotels if you want |
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| 16:29:26 | brixen | zimbatm: any info would be good, I don't even know what the dates are |
| 16:29:56 | brixen | oh good, here's a site in german :P |
| 16:30:14 | octopod | is going to euruko |
| 16:30:25 | octopod | brixen: http://www.euruko2008.org |
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| 16:30:35 | brixen | heh, oh sure, that easy huh |
| 16:30:40 | brixen | thanks octopod |
| 16:30:52 | zimbatm | brixen, http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110682596025451790779.000443df23934c24f7 b4a&ll=50.085774,14.410344&spn=0.015255,0.024462&z=15&om=0 |
| 16:31:03 | zimbatm | i don't know if my hotels overlay will show |
| 16:31:15 | octopod | brixen: I hope you're going to be proposing a talk on rubinius or mspec or related :) |
| 16:31:40 | zimbatm | brixen: i've marked the ones who are the nearest from the conference |
| 16:31:56 | zimbatm | the price is about 76 euro / night |
| 16:32:06 | enebo | HAH...Skype Q&A session |
| 16:32:25 | zimbatm | I just go because _why will be there :) |
| 16:32:32 | enebo | Wow _why will be there |
| 16:32:39 | enebo | I have never met him...that will be cool |
| 16:33:06 | zimbatm | enebo, that's what they say on the website at least |
| 16:33:06 | brixen | zimbatm: thanks! cool map |
| 16:33:17 | enebo | yeah I just saw that |
| 16:33:20 | zimbatm | brixen, do you have both overlays ? |
| 16:33:29 | enebo | That is where I noticed David will be on Skype too :) |
| 16:34:14 | brixen | zimbatm: not sure, I've got drinks, foo, venue and the yellow pins |
| 16:34:14 | zimbatm | enebo, ?? |
| 16:34:20 | brixen | zimbatm: how do I tell? |
| 16:34:32 | zimbatm | brixen, do you see yellow houses ? |
| 16:34:41 | brixen | octopod: hmm, I shall think about a talk, looks like we have until 3/9 to submit |
| 16:34:41 | enebo | zimbatm: David Heinemeier Hansson (Skype Q&A session) |
| 16:34:49 | rubuildius | Caleb Tennis: 561b5a177; 4708 examples, 17223 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 16:34:59 | brixen | zimbatm: oh, no yellow houses |
| 16:35:03 | zimbatm | brixen, http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=116249578343697814314.00044584c81005e18a 532&z=16&om=0 |
| 16:35:04 | zimbatm | ? |
| 16:35:20 | brixen | ah, yep, yellow houses :) |
| 16:35:24 | zimbatm | :) |
| 16:35:29 | zimbatm | brixen, now mix both :) |
| 16:35:34 | brixen | heh |
| 16:35:41 | brixen | mixing my drinks with yellow houses |
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| 16:36:12 | zimbatm | brixen, hope to see you there :) |
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| 16:38:26 | brixen | zimbatm: thanks, me too, you :) |
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| 16:48:47 | enebo | evan: Does mongrel work on rubinius? |
| 16:57:19 | brixen | enebo: it works some, but needs more testing |
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| 16:57:30 | enebo | that is great |
| 16:57:48 | enebo | I thought someone mentioned it, but did not know for sure |
| 16:57:51 | brixen | yeah |
| 16:58:09 | brixen | enebo: ezra said the other night he served a page through merb |
| 16:58:10 | brixen | iirc |
| 16:58:22 | enebo | sweet...you guys are moving right along |
| 16:58:26 | brixen | :D |
| 16:59:43 | octopod | I think his ezra's quote was "full frontal awesome sauce" :) |
| 17:00:37 | brixen | hah |
| 17:00:39 | brixen | indeed it was |
| 17:01:40 | boyscout | 1 commit by Wilson Bilkovich |
| 17:01:41 | boyscout | * Correctly guard Bignum specs for CI; ed20c3f |
| 17:02:00 | brixen | Defiler: you at acts_as? |
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| 17:15:20 | rubuildius | Wilson Bilkovich: ed20c3f9f; 4707 examples, 17219 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 17:49:13 | pate enters the room. | |
| 17:49:23 | brixen | hiya pate :) |
| 17:49:34 | pate | hiya brixen |
| 17:49:38 | pate | busy day .... |
| 17:49:43 | pate | how're things going? |
| 17:49:43 | brixen | heh |
| 17:49:48 | brixen | pretty good |
| 17:49:57 | brixen | been doing a few perf opts so I can check in the mspec rewrite |
| 17:50:05 | brixen | File::Stat is a pita! |
| 17:51:38 | brixen | xmlhacker: hello! |
| 17:52:09 | xmlhacker | brixen: howdy! |
| 17:52:25 | brixen | just realized who you are :) |
| 17:52:38 | brixen | pate forwarded the email about continuing the ruby.net project |
| 17:52:40 | xmlhacker | uh, oh... is that a good thing or a bad thing ;-) :D |
| 17:52:45 | brixen | good thing! |
| 17:52:53 | xmlhacker | *SWEET*! :D |
| 17:53:12 | brixen | so, yeah, anything we can help with? have you folks tried running the specs? |
| 17:53:23 | headius | hiya |
| 17:53:29 | brixen | hey headius |
| 17:53:31 | pate | heya headius |
| 17:53:52 | brixen | headius: how goes the conf? |
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| 17:54:09 | headius | so far pretty good |
| 17:54:28 | headius | I was hoping to see more merb demo, like in the session description |
| 17:54:31 | xmlhacker | at the moment just working through a few maintenance issues... plan to start pushing things out of http://rubyon.net as far as updating on progress, etc. |
| 17:54:44 | xmlhacker | what up, headius! |
| 17:55:14 | headius | xmlhacker: wayne leaving ruby.net was probably best for the project, he's a researcher, not an OSS lead, but everyone looked to him for decisions |
| 17:56:27 | headius | I don't see any reason ruby.net shouldn't be able to continue and maintain a lead over ironruby, since dlr really only helps with the earliest phases of getting a language running |
| 17:56:35 | xmlhacker | headius: There were certainly times where a lot was hanging up in the air waiting on a response from him which would come about two weeks later after the momentum was lost, so yeah, I don't see this as a bad thing in that regard. |
| 17:57:25 | brixen | xmlhacker: what's the best way to get ruby.net running on a mac? is there a simple howto? |
| 17:57:31 | brixen | xmlhacker: nice new site, btw :) |
| 17:57:38 | xmlhacker | And I certainly agree with the notion that there is more to life than the DLR, though I think as time moves on there's a lot of stuff we can benefit from... time will tell. |
| 17:58:02 | headius | brixen: definitely not macports mono, it's way back |
| 17:58:10 | xmlhacker | there isn't one yet, but since I work on a Mac as well it should be simple enough to write one up. |
| 17:58:11 | headius | I phear trying to build it all from trunk |
| 17:58:11 | brixen | headius: yeah, tried that for IR once |
| 17:58:14 | brixen | and only once |
| 17:58:38 | brixen | xmlhacker: ok, np |
| 17:58:52 | xmlhacker | I'll add that to my list of posts to make once I get the blog up... |
| 17:58:55 | brixen | xmlhacker: personally, very pleased to hear folks want to continue with ruby.net |
| 17:59:03 | brixen | super |
| 17:59:32 | xmlhacker | I'm actually just running down to B&N to pick up a copy of Ola Bini's jRuby on Rails title... Plan to spend some time this afternoon attempting to get RoR running via an IKVM'd jRuby... should be fun! :D |
| 17:59:49 | brixen | nice! |
| 17:59:54 | headius | JRuby puts IKVM through its paces, that's for sure |
| 18:00:07 | headius | IKVM's NIO support is spotty |
| 18:00:29 | xmlhacker | at present time I think Ruby.NET can benefit more from jRuby than from anything else, so I need to get my head around all that is jRuby++ |
| 18:00:46 | headius | well ports of all the libraries we've reimplemented would benefit everyone |
| 18:01:05 | xmlhacker | Yeah, the NIO support has always been touch and go... Have you tried the latest builds using OpenJDK? |
| 18:01:06 | headius | C#-based ruby impls can ride our coattails for a while |
| 18:01:50 | headius | xmlhacker: latest builds of what? |
| 18:02:02 | xmlhacker | IKVM.NET + OpenJDK |
| 18:02:43 | headius | ahh no, I have not |
| 18:02:59 | xmlhacker | okay, cool.. that gives me some hope then! :D |
| 18:03:06 | headius | I've never actually tried ikvm...the ikvm guy just started running JRuby, so I saw that |
| 18:03:23 | headius | I think he was using it to expand test coverage |
| 18:03:41 | headius | I haven't run a windows-based machine for a good 3 years or more |
| 18:03:42 | xmlhacker | oh, right... yeah, Jeroen has made a ton of progress with the integration of OpenJDK over the past few months so things have changed quite a bit. |
| 18:04:09 | xmlhacker | okay, I'm off to B&N... back in a few :) |
| 18:04:15 | headius | I'd love to get a recent mono working, but I'm too lazy to install stuff that's not in ports now |
| 18:04:43 | xmlhacker | headius: :D It's pretty straight forward to get up and going via SVN. |
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| 18:05:09 | xmlhacker | I'll get some build instructions posted this weekend. |
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| 18:50:12 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 18:50:13 | boyscout | * New File#chmod rubyspecs.; fddaa68 |
| 18:58:39 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 18:58:40 | boyscout | * New rubyspecs for File#umask.; 5f6ac70 |
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| 19:03:52 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 19:03:53 | boyscout | * One more rubyspec for File#open.; e478731 |
| 19:04:05 | brixen | VVSiz: woot :) |
| 19:04:14 | VVSiz | :) |
| 19:04:26 | VVSiz | we need more IO/File specs! :) |
| 19:05:07 | brixen | indeed |
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| 19:16:12 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: e478731a2; 4717 examples, 17246 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 19:16:13 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: 5f6ac7095; 4716 examples, 17244 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 19:16:14 | rubuildius | Vladimir Sizikov: fddaa684b; 4715 examples, 17243 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 19:17:13 | VVSiz | nice |
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| 19:21:24 | brixen | heh, rubuildius is a lifo |
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| 19:24:47 | VVSiz | :) |
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| 20:21:10 | benburkert | Hi all, I looks like rubinius is running cruise control for CI |
| 20:21:18 | benburkert | is that cruisecontrolrb, or the java cruise control? |
| 20:21:41 | brixen | benburkert: I don't think the ccrb stuff got completely set up |
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| 20:21:52 | brixen | benburkert: the rubuildius bot is checked into the repo under /tools |
| 20:22:11 | benburkert | hmm, ok, I'm really trying to figure out how to monitor a git repo with cruisecontrolrb |
| 20:22:30 | benburkert | is that what is monitoring your git repo? |
| 20:22:37 | brixen | yeah |
| 20:22:43 | brixen | I think it hits the feed every 5 min |
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| 20:23:22 | benburkert | brixen: great, i'll dig around in there, thanks |
| 20:23:35 | brixen | np |
| 20:23:52 | brixen | I think setting up ccrb is still on the list, so if you make some headway, let us know :) |
| 20:24:21 | benburkert | sure, np :) |
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| 21:17:08 | xmlhacker | headius: brixen: http://s3.amazonaws.com/m.david/photos/jRubyOnRailsOn.NET-hackSession.begin.JPG |
| 21:17:20 | d2dchat enters the room. | |
| 21:18:08 | xmlhacker | the iPhone camera *SUCKS* but I think the general idea as to what my afternoon now entails is firmly in place ;-) |
| 21:19:57 | headius | hey, iphone camera is excellent as long as you only look at the pictures on iphone |
| 21:20:05 | headius | :) |
| 21:20:28 | rue | Blargl |
| 21:21:02 | headius | hey, you're on a mac, you should be able to get us nice mono build instructions |
| 21:21:55 | xmlhacker | headius: good point! They need to make an "iPhone iViewer" so people can see the true-to-life quality of the original image ;-) |
| 21:22:01 | d2dchat leaves the room. | |
| 21:22:24 | xmlhacker | headius: yup... just picked up my new keyboard for my MBP, so I |
| 21:22:27 | xmlhacker | 've |
| 21:22:35 | xmlhacker | got that back in commission now as well |
| 21:22:47 | langenberg enters the room. | |
| 21:23:04 | xmlhacker | new rule #1 > *NEVER* take your laptop to the bar with you... |
| 21:24:33 | langenberg | I just listened to the Rubiverse Podcast (the one about Zed Shaw's rant), and I heard him talking about Rubinius as the only way of a future for Ruby. So actually came here to find out where all the fuzz was about. |
| 21:24:34 | xmlhacker | It's pretty straight forward to build both Mono and Ruby.NET on Mac... should be able to get those posted later this afternoon. |
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| 21:25:28 | headius | I think rubinius is certainly one way :) |
| 21:25:59 | benburkert | langenberg: I don't know how to put this lightly, but rubinius is kind of a big deal |
| 21:26:07 | headius | rubinius as a general idea probably has more legs than rubinius as a VM implementation |
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| 21:27:18 | tmpk | Hey, headius, can you tell me a bit about memory sharing under JVM? E.g. if you have several instances of jRuby running. |
| 21:27:18 | xmlhacker | headius: brixen: I'll keep you posted on my little JRuby on Rails on .NET adventure... I doubt much it will "just work" but no doubt the experience will help better understand the overall process... I'll keep good notes... |
| 21:27:24 | langenberg | What's Rubinius main goal? |
| 21:27:57 | headius | tmpk: sure...though if it's not really rubinius-related we should probably talk in #jruby |
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| 21:28:18 | headius | in general there's not a whole lot of sharing other than JRuby's code |
| 21:28:37 | xmlhacker | just realized he needs to join #jruby |
| 21:28:38 | headius | interned strings (symbols) are shared at the JVM level |
| 21:29:06 | headius | we're going to wire something up that allows sharing jitted methods across jruby instances, so that will share too |
| 21:29:18 | rue | langenberg: To implement Ruby, sanely |
| 21:29:39 | langenberg | cuz MRI's implementation is insane? |
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| 21:29:49 | langenberg | (no offence!) |
| 21:29:58 | tmpk | headius: what if I have a fairly mature process and want to fork it? Will it try to share pages? |
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| 21:30:30 | headius | I would not recommend forking the JVM |
| 21:30:40 | tmpk | Ah, no, I mean within the JVM. |
| 21:30:42 | headius | and we don't support directly forking a given JRuby instance |
| 21:31:14 | tmpk | Is that something for the future, or something fundamental about the JVM? |
| 21:31:16 | headius | there's too many fiddly bits that won't fork cleanly for that to ever really work |
| 21:31:21 | headius | running threads, so on |
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| 21:31:47 | headius | all objects reference the JRuby instance they came from |
| 21:31:58 | headius | which references the threads in that runtime |
| 21:32:00 | tmpk | I'd be interested to hear about that when I have more spare time. |
| 21:32:03 | langenberg | rue: is the goal to get a faster Ruby? Or just a clean implemented Ruby? |
| 21:32:04 | headius | so we'd have to find a clean place to cleave it |
| 21:32:52 | rue | langenberg: Both. More robust too |
| 21:33:05 | headius | and it will make coffee |
| 21:33:41 | rue | Not until it runs on the JVM |
| 21:34:31 | langenberg | I'm going to walk through installation guide and try to compile it. |
| 21:35:56 | tmpk | How much sharing is there between the various Ruby reimplementations, other than the rspecs? |
| 21:36:24 | langenberg | Rubinius sounds like a fun project to work with |
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| 21:37:30 | headius | tmpk: mostly the specs, though rubinius and jruby have shared ruby-based impls of things occasionally |
| 21:37:40 | headius | and we all read MRI's C code from time to time |
| 21:37:46 | headius | and use MRI's stdlib |
| 21:40:47 | langenberg | Hooray, clean compile! |
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| 21:49:19 | tmpk | Is this where the newest specs are kept? http://spec.ruby-doc.org/ |
| 21:50:05 | tmpk | Uh... |
| 21:50:31 | rue | Nope, they are in our repo |
| 21:54:25 | tmpk | So the sharing of specs across implementations is ad-hoc? |
| 21:55:46 | brixen | tmpk: coming soon: rubyspec.org |
| 21:55:52 | rue | RSN |
| 21:55:56 | brixen | hah |
| 21:56:09 | brixen | rue: argh, I hate File::Stat :P |
| 21:56:22 | brixen | rue: look at the bottom of this: http://pastie.org/148842 |
| 21:56:35 | brixen | our primitive is as close to MRI as we'll get |
| 21:56:45 | brixen | and we're right there with mri |
| 21:57:00 | brixen | if only I could dump all this extra work that the stat primitive is doing for no good reason |
| 21:57:04 | rue | brixen: So can we just have Ezra kidnap some unsuspecting EY designer and keep them in a dungeon until we have a complete new site? |
| 21:57:23 | brixen | rue: for which? rubini.us or rubyspec? |
| 21:57:28 | rue | Both! |
| 21:57:40 | brixen | heh |
| 21:57:48 | brixen | the rubyspec holdup is checking in the mspec updates |
| 21:58:05 | brixen | I just want to see some fruit to this stat work |
| 21:58:16 | rue | We need someone who is really good at drawing BMX bikes though |
| 21:58:34 | brixen | somehow, when loader.rb runs with the -rcompiler opt, it bails on the new stables I try to build |
| 21:58:42 | brixen | I'm not figuruing it out |
| 21:58:47 | scoopr | rue, when were you headed .fi again? |
| 21:59:06 | rue | scoopr: No clue |
| 21:59:23 | rue | brixen: Did you change the arguments, stack or return value? |
| 21:59:29 | tmpk | I keep seeing BMX mentioned here. Fill me in? |
| 21:59:42 | brixen | so, 1.7x C speed is not bad |
| 21:59:47 | rue | BMX bikes are super awesome |
