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00:27:57ruegraza_: Let me know if it works
00:28:00ruecrafterm: Morning
00:28:11craftermrue: morning mate
00:28:19craftermhows it going?
00:30:09rueAlright, been busy
00:30:21rueGetting everything ready for the conf?
00:30:28craftermsame here, flat out but good
00:30:38craftermyep, pretty much all set, we're all booked up now
00:30:52craftermfor minor things left but looking forward to it
00:31:56rueCoolness. Were you guys able to accommodate everyone?
00:32:34craftermthere's still some demand, but the room is at capacity now
00:33:33craftermso we might have to run a couple of them :)
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00:39:19grazarue: are you in Australia?
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01:08:21wycatsevan: ping
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01:22:30MenTaLguYhowdy
01:23:58rueAloha
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05:10:29brixensweet, just ran mspec-ci on array with the new tagged excludes
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05:16:40ruebrixen: Cool
05:16:49rueevan: You there?
05:17:23brixenrue: I'm removing the #fails_on guard, since that can be done with excludes
05:17:31brixenrue: any case you can think of that I'm missing?
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06:05:36ruebrixen: I would imagine it is fine
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08:04:36dbussinkmorning!
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08:08:26brixenmorning dbussink
08:09:51dbussinklooks like removing the gcc optimizations also fix building on openbsd
08:09:56rueMorning
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08:11:36dbussinkhmm, ./bin/ci failed on openbsd with Too many open files (EMFILE) error
08:13:29ruebrixen: You know if there is a conf tomorrow?
08:14:54brixenrue: conf?
08:15:02rue~Call
08:15:37brixenno idea, no one has mentioned anything to me
08:15:58brixenat 10am pst I'll be at a talk on correct incremental gc at psu
08:16:29brixenrue: I'm thinking of pushing the mspec rewrite, but mspec-run isn't complete yet, what do you think?
08:16:35brixenmspec-ci runs fine
08:16:50brixenmspec-tag isn't complete either (for adding/removing tags)
08:17:11rueManual add for now?
08:17:41brixenyeah
08:17:57brixenif you do bin/mspec tag it will output a mesg to that effect
08:18:06brixenI should finish the runners tomorrow
08:18:29brixenthis is mspec-ci: 1131 files, 5161 examples, 17514 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors
08:18:32brixen21 sec
08:18:39brixennot too bad, since it was running in 19
08:18:55brixenoh, and tips 5k :D
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08:19:59rueCool
08:20:50brixenwell, I guess I'll wait since I'll be out part of the morning
08:21:00brixenI should probably be here when the bitching starts in earnest :P
08:21:20dbussinkguess the number has gone up because library specs are ran too
08:21:21dbussink?
08:21:32brixendbussink: haven't added library specs yet
08:21:39brixenone of the next things on the agenda
08:22:27tbmcmullenquick question; whats the usual timeframe for getting patches accepted?
08:22:47brixentbmcmullen: totally depends, do you have a hot one waiting? :)
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08:23:08dbussinktbmcmullen: it usually helps to nag people here :P
08:23:09tbmcmullenbrixen: yessir. 331.
08:23:34tbmcmullenI was hoping to get ruby-openid working. For which I need bits of CGI. For which I need that patch in. Heh.
08:24:09brixenlooks
08:24:59dbussinktbmcmullen: cgi isn't tested at all afaik
08:25:11dbussinktbmcmullen: or specced for that matter
08:25:40tbmcmullendbussink: Yeah, I talked to someone about it on here. I was planning on spec'ing at least part of it.
08:25:45brixentbmcmullen: ahh, Array#pack
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08:25:56tbmcmullendbussink: Would the whole thing need to come over at once or could it come over one piece at a time?
08:26:26dbussinkyou could partially spec it first
08:26:38dbussinksomething is always better than nothing
08:26:58brixentbmcmullen: I'll do it now
08:27:00tbmcmullencool. I really just need the parse and escaping bits at first anyway.
08:27:08tbmcmullenbrixen: Great! Thanks.
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08:29:54brixentbmcmullen: no problem, thanks for submitting
08:30:34dbussinktbmcmullen: well, getting those bits specced is already a nice addition to have :)
08:30:44brixenheadius: do you know why there are fails_on :jruby in the specs? are you unable to use excludes for any of those?
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08:31:13headiusprobably old
08:31:28boyscout1 commit by Tyler McMullen
08:31:29boyscout * Add support for H and h to Array#pack.; a683dd7
08:31:39brixenheadius: ok cool
08:31:59brixenheadius: I've removed them, I should push the new tagged stuff tomorrow
08:32:15brixenheadius: then VVSiz_ can add bug #'s to all the jruby excludes
08:32:38headiusokeedoke
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08:38:17VVSizbrixen, headius: indeed, no need for fails_on :jruby anymore. I was going to remove them sooner or later (there are not that many left)
08:38:27brixentbmcmullen: next time evan is around, pastie him your public ssh key and point to #331
08:38:44tbmcmullenbrixen: Will do. Thanks.
08:38:48brixenVVSiz: no problem, I've removed them locally, should push the stuff tomorrow
08:39:04VVSizthanks!
08:41:38brixenVVSiz: np
08:42:03brixenok, sleep for me, catch y'all in a few hours
08:42:17dbussinknite!
08:43:08brixennight
08:43:57rubuildiusTyler McMullen: a683dd757; 4844 examples, 17581 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors
08:44:03dbussinklooks like i found another symbol collision...
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08:54:35dbussinkanyone in with some knowledge on the parser?
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08:58:05tbmcmullenHave you ever seen a seg fault when trying to run shotgun/rubinius with "Unknown primitive hash_redistribute"?
08:59:32dbussinkare you sure you have the latest version?
08:59:40dbussinktry rake rebuild
08:59:47dbussinkor rake distclean build if that doesn't help
09:00:15tbmcmullenI actually deleted my local code and pulled a fresh copy, after it failed the first time.
09:00:43tbmcmullenTrying the rebuild now...
09:00:43dbussinkdid you ever do rake install?
09:00:50tbmcmullenI did.
09:01:00dbussinkah, that's the problem then
09:01:04dbussinkremove everything that it installed
09:01:27dbussinkinstalling always results in a lot of trouble, i never do it
09:01:37dbussinkwe're moving too fast to keep that working
09:01:48tbmcmullenAhh. Excellent. That helps.
09:04:54dbussinkrue: still there?
09:05:12rueYeah, what is up?
09:05:30dbussinkdo you know how i can get the entire parse tree for a certain file?
09:06:23rue`shotgun/rubinius describe` or `shotgun/rubinius lib/compiler/describe.rb`
09:06:31rueBoth slightly different
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09:07:21dbussinkrue: ah thnx!
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09:09:35dbussinkrue: hmm, looks like i found a bug in the parser on freebsd / openbsd
09:09:51dbussinkrue: a symbol collision
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09:10:10rueHm, can you give me the test case?
09:10:12dbussinkrue: the file contains the correct symbol names, but the parser makes another symbol out of it
09:10:21dbussinkrue: do you have a bsd system?
09:10:34dbussink./shotgun/rubinius describe lib/irb/ruby-token.rb
09:10:45dbussinkline 482 of that output
09:11:38dbussinksays [:lit, :TkUNLESS] but that should be [:lit, :TkIF_MOD], see line 118 of lib/irb/ruby-token.rb
09:11:38crossblaimhi
09:12:05dbussinkcrossblaim: hi
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09:20:14dbussinkrue: are you able to reproduce it?
09:20:57rueYeah, I see it too
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09:28:27dbussinkrue: i suspect that it could occur on other platforms, but that it also depends on the number of symbols already defined
09:28:44dbussinkrue: because that number differs for each platform, because of the types generator
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09:32:19rueYeah
09:32:36rueProbably need to revisit the algo
09:32:42dbussinkany idea where this problem could originate?
09:45:53rueSorry, wandering in and out
09:46:01dbussinkhehe, no problem
09:46:18rueIs it libmquark that is used for it now?
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09:48:12dbussinkyeah, but that is pretty dumb afaik
09:48:26dbussinkbut it might be a bug there, dunno
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09:49:36rueHm, actually looks like string.c defines its own hash function
09:51:04dbussinkyeah, that one can cause collisions, but evan fixed that afaik
09:51:11dbussinkmaybe the fix is incomplete
09:51:19dbussinkor not properly used at compile time
09:51:33dbussinkbecause the previous collision was at runtime, not parse / compile time
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09:53:25rueGrammar uses quark
09:53:47rueSee shotgun/external_libs/libmquark/quark.c
09:54:20rueAnd the hash function there is not great
09:54:39rueeyes mass menacingly
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09:56:04rueAlso libcchash, I think
09:58:42dbussinkdid you test with the quark hash function whether they collide?
09:59:30rueNo, sorry, trying to puzzle out an arch
10:08:25dbussinkrue: hmm, no collision for the quark hash algo
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10:13:31dbussinkrue: but that would have been strange, because that algorithm doesn't seem to depend on the number of existing symbols
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10:35:04ragnarddbussink: hello! I saw the removal of the specific inline optimization flags made the build work on openbsd... are you still getting random segfaults when compiling?
10:35:16dbussinkragnard: nope
10:35:19dbussinkragnard: works fine now
10:35:36dbussinkragnard: those optimizations broke stuff on os x ppc too
10:35:50ragnarddbussink: hm. I have built without optimizations and I still get the segfaults.
10:36:03dbussinkragnard: hmm, are you sure you did a distclean first
10:36:03dbussink?
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10:36:18ragnarddbussink: tracked them down, seems like there is a problem with pthread_getspecific in environment.c
10:36:40ragnarddbussink: it simply returns NULL
10:37:28ragnarddbussink: on openbsd, that is. It feels a bit scary... I have asserted that pthread_setspecific succeeds, the key is properly set
10:38:10ragnarddbussink: but as I said, sometimes pthread_getspecific returns 0
10:38:19dbussinkragnard: that's really strange
10:39:09dbussinkragnard: i'm gonna try building again
10:39:43ragnarddbussink: yep. I'm afraid it might have something to do with the pthread impl. and signals... because the call is to environment_current_machin, from _cpu_task_preempt, which is the callback for a SIGVTALRM
10:40:42dbussinkhmmm, if i remember correctly, there were also problems on solaris with SIGVTALRM when i tried it there
10:40:43ragnard(i built with DEV=1 though... so no optimizations)
10:42:36dbussinkragnard: hmm, i built it without DEV
10:45:41ragnarddbussink: I'll try that, do some stresstesting with the asserts still in and see what happens...
10:46:19ragnarddbussink: but it doesn't feel real good when a sigsegv is optimized away :)
10:46:35dbussinkragnard: nope, but i've seen it happen before
10:47:02dbussinkragnard: on os x ppc i got a sigbus, and it looked like the heap pointer was 0x0
10:47:32dbussinkwe've had it with -funroll-loops too
10:47:47dbussinkcouldn't find the problem, but it seemed like that optimization triggered it
10:47:54ragnarddbussink: hm. scary.
10:49:08dbussinkragnard: yeah, but i've used gentoo and if you look at that, there a lot of packages that have excludes for specific compiler flags
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10:51:46ragnarddbussink: you mean excludes to avoid certain known 'hazardous' optimizations?
10:52:08dbussinkragnard: yeah, sometimes even -O2 is known to break certain applications
10:53:16ragnarddbussink: well... I have the great respect for compiler writers... guess it is really hard to predicit side effects, but it would be nice with a flags to avoid possibly hazardous optimizations. but i guess that is -O0 :)
10:54:34dbussinkragnard: i'm planning on doing some benchmarking on rubinius with various flags
10:54:42dbussinkto see whether they make a difference
10:56:34ragnarddbussink: regarding the EMEMFILE failure on openbsd, have you bumbed the openfiles limit? it's quite conservatively set by default.
10:56:47dbussinkragnard: no, not yet
10:57:01dbussinkragnard: but that was my idea too, but didn't get to it yet
10:57:16ragnarddbussink: sure... just catching up on the irc logs :)
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11:57:38rueNite
12:01:34dbussinknite
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13:09:18dbussinki've been running ./bin/ci benchmarks, and removing the inline optimizations actually make it a bit faster
13:09:22dbussinknot significant though
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13:11:56dbussinkwithin a 1% margin over 50 ./bin/ci runs
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13:58:19dbussinkfor whoever is left here: http://pastie.caboo.se/pastes/153689
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13:58:45dbussinklooks like all those inline optimizations are basically useless at the moment
13:59:13Arjendbussink, agreed.
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14:12:26ragnarddbussink: the evidence is clear, seems like an easy case... :)
14:12:37dbussinkragnard: you found it?
14:12:40ragnarddbussink: openbsd still segfaults for me though
14:12:45dbussinkragnard: or you mean the benchmark?
14:12:48ragnarddbussink: no, i mean the inline benchmarks
14:13:04dbussinkragnard: yeah, i've seen the segfaults too
14:13:11dbussinkragnard: do you also get them after a build?
14:14:00ragnarddbussink: i seem to get them randomly... i trigger them by doing a rake clean:rbc, then rake... eventually something blows
14:14:15ragnarddbussink: sometimes i have rebuilt shotgun, sometimes not...
14:14:41ragnarddbussink: this is where it dies for me: http://pastie.org/153225
14:15:08dbussinkragnard: hmm, that build without DEV ?
14:15:13ragnarddbussink: yep.
14:15:31ragnarddbussink: no, sorry...
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14:15:39ragnarddbussink: with DEV=1, that is
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14:16:13ragnardtried most recent tree both with, and without DEV... same old.
14:16:27dbussinkah ok, but no idea on specific causes?
14:17:00dbussinkcould probably be a ucontext problem, openbsd is the only system using it right now afaik
14:17:02random8rI reckon there should be three parts to development: 1. Writing Code 2. Testing 3. Documentation. They should be inseparable.
14:17:07ragnardwell no... it crashes 'randomly', ie. not when compiling any specific file...
14:17:41ragnardas you say, its probably something hairy with ucontext/signals/pthread...
14:18:39ragnardI am sure that pthread_setspecific succeeds, and sets the correct value (ie. not NULL)... but when the value is retrieved using pthread_getspecific, it is somehow NULL.
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14:19:08ragnardand this happens, as I said, in a signal handler...
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14:24:35dbussinkragnard: hmm, why is the cast to a rubinius_globals in there?
14:25:09dbussinkbecause that's a totally different thing
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14:26:35ragnarddbussink: i don't understand... different to what? it still returns global->m?
14:27:02ragnardit gets set in environment_setup_thread. am i mistaken?
14:29:18dbussinkragnard: nvm, i misread it
14:29:28dbussinkthere is a rubinius_global and a rubinius_globals (mind the final s)
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14:29:39ragnardaha, didn't know that
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14:31:04random8rwow rubinius has come along heaps since 4 weeks ago
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14:31:40random8r83%!
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14:32:45dbussink83% of what?
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14:34:25dbussinklangenberg: what's up with your connection?
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14:38:52dbussinklangenberg: you there?
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14:47:27langenbergdbussink: bad wireless reception at my desk.
14:48:56dbussinklangenberg: ah, well you were filling up my chat window :P
14:49:13langenbergdbussink: my bad :)
14:49:38dbussinklangenberg: btw, did you read my comment on your ticket?
14:49:56langenbergdbussink: Yeah, just checked my mail. Thanks for your reply.
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14:50:46langenbergdbussink: I haven't updated the stdlib version in that branch.
14:51:05dbussinkbut it adds a version to lib/
14:51:13langenbergdbussink: Is that stdlib just an exact copy of ruby's lib?
14:51:18dbussinkyeah
14:51:30dbussinkso if stuff goes into lib/ it should be removed from stdlib
14:51:32langenbergIsn't it a good idea to update all files?
14:51:41langenbergOh, I didn't know
14:52:02dbussinklib/ is what is tested and known to work in rubinius
14:52:08dbussinkstdlib is sort of a todo
14:52:12langenbergAh :)
14:52:19langenbergThought it was just a reference
14:57:20langenbergI'll add another patch okay?
14:59:13dbussinkyeah, that's ok
14:59:25dbussinkdoes everything work on rubinius?
15:01:16langenbergyeah
15:01:32langenbergexamples pass
15:01:44langenbergExcept the code that relies on kconv
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15:05:00anonuserOkay, anyone know where to get quality parts for a new computer on the cheap? My home computer died last weekend ;_;
15:05:29dbussinklangenberg: if it's not too much trouble, could you use git mv to move the file?
15:05:53langenbergdbussink: mv instead of rm?
15:06:11dbussinklangenberg: it keeps history over the moved file
15:06:12langenbergI did make some minor changes to it.
15:06:42dbussinklangenberg: ah ok, well, we would like to be able to trace those changes even over renames or moves of the file
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15:07:32langenbergsure
15:08:01dbussinkmy usual approach would be to fix it up in stdlib and finally move it if it's ready
15:08:10Arjenlangenberg, Mathijs, congrats on the patch! :)
15:08:21langenbergHah, it's a little start.
15:08:36langenbergGlad I can make a tiny contribution to Ruby's future.
15:08:45ArjenIt's the small things that make a difference (bad attempt at translating dutch to english)
15:08:52dbussinkdon't let my nitpicking hold you back ;)
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15:09:50ArjenI tried building rubinius at home to do make a little contribution of my own, but couldn't get it to work. I'll try again later...
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15:10:05rubuildius_ppcTyler McMullen: a683dd757; build failed!
15:10:25dbussinkArjen_: what's your system?
15:10:38Arjendbussink, Ubuntu.
15:10:49dbussinkArjen_: hmm, shouldn't be a problem
15:11:04Arjendbussink, I don't think it is, I'm just missing stuff and I can't figure out what.
15:11:32ArjenI'm a linux newbie, so I'm learning while I go...
15:12:07dbussinkArjen_: ah ok, well, make sure to check the dependencies that are listed on the lighthouse page about installing it
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15:12:22dbussinkcremes: that's your bot?
15:12:25Arjendbussink, I got all those, and it still didn't work.
15:12:27cremesbenny: need to ask a question about rubuildius
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15:12:36cremesdbussink: yep
15:13:20dbussinkcremes: ah well, got it working on your system
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15:13:35dbussinkcremes: didn't fix the truncate errors though
15:13:53cremesdbussink: yeah, the latest builds have been running nicely except for the File#truncate failures
15:13:59dbussinkcremes: there is another problem that could cause it, that also causes irb to fail
15:14:27cremesdbussink: the rubuildius buildlog is complaining it can't find a rakefile
15:14:36langenbergdbussink: I'll do a mv from stdlib to lib, and re-apply changes, okay?
15:14:48dbussinklangenberg: yeah, that's ok
15:15:07dbussinklangenberg: do the move in a separate commit, makes it more clear
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15:55:28bennycremes: hey
15:55:51cremesbenny: getting rubuildius running on osx ppc and have a question...
15:56:15cremesbenny: i need to "seed" the repo/rubinius/HEAD dir with a manual clone before starting, yes?
15:56:23bennyyes
15:56:42cremesokay, doing that now... it wasn't obvious to me before
15:56:57cremesanything else not in the readme that i should be on the lookout for?
15:57:06d2dchat enters the room.
15:57:37bennyit's in the readme :-)
15:58:04cremesd'oh! i need to read more carefully!
15:58:22cremesthanks for your help
15:58:46bennyhehe, no problem :-)
15:59:23cremesoh, one more thing... you commented out pastie.rb in your version. i added it back using the pastie code from pastie.caboo.se
15:59:36cremesany problem with that? should it "just work?"
16:02:39bennyoh I didn't add either pastie.rb or nopaste
16:02:52bennyin bin/
16:04:05bennybut pastie was down when I committed it, that's why I switched to rafb
16:04:30cremesi see, thanks
16:04:59bennydo you have a pastie.rb?
16:05:16cremesi created one from the code available at pastie.caboo.se
16:05:31cremesi put it into ~/continuous/bin
16:05:37bennyoh there is one... do you mind pasting it somewhere so I can commit it?
16:05:52cremessure... hold on a sec
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16:08:00cremesyou need both of these: http://pastie.caboo.se/153747 and http://pastie.caboo.se/153748
16:11:05bennythanks
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16:18:42boyscout1 commit by Benjamin Andresen
16:18:43boyscout * added nopaste & pastie to rubuildius (thanks to Chuck Remes); 8309fe8
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16:28:21rubuildius_ppcBenjamin Andresen: 8309fe877; 4844 examples, 17568 expectations, 2 failures, 10 errors;
16:28:53rubuildiusBenjamin Andresen: 8309fe877; 4844 examples, 17581 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors
16:29:04bennycremes: is pastie.rb accepting stdin to paste?
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16:44:51cremesbenny: looks like I need to test that out. gotta run right now but will look at it later
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18:16:24langenbergdbussink: I've updated the ticket's attachments.
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18:18:36DefilerPower outages are fun
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18:23:40SilexI'm a bit new to this, ruby 1.9 will have a vm right ?
18:23:50Silex(could it be that rubinius will be used for it?)
18:23:58DefilerIt has its own VM, unrelated to Rubinius
18:24:04Silexok
18:24:28DefilerIt doesn't store the compiled files in between runs, though.. it just processes them and runs them 'internally'
18:24:46Defiler..but it is still a VM (called YARV)
18:24:47SilexI see
18:24:56Silexty for the infos
18:25:08DefilerNo problem
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18:27:50rueMorning
18:28:04dbussinkmorning
18:28:23dbussinkfor who's interested, i've got some stats on the gcc optimizations
18:28:38dbussinkhttp://pastie.caboo.se/pastes/153689
18:28:55dbussinki say, we remove all those inline things, they don't help and only break stuff
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18:32:39Defilerdbussink: Interesting.
18:33:07dbussinkDefiler: really no significant differences there
18:33:51DefilerYeah
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18:35:40dbussinkwhich actually confirms my experience with gentoo and that is that uber 1337 compiler flags usually don't have any noticeable effect
18:36:45rueYou forgot -fquantum-pipe
18:37:30scooprinlining is a double-edged sword
18:37:31langenberg--omg-optimized
18:37:34dbussinkhehe, yeah
18:37:52Defiler--fcharles-barkley-shut-up-and-jam-gaiden
18:37:55scooprbut stuff like -mcpu=exact-cpu-model does help somewhat
18:38:26scooprat least, if the baseline is 386
18:40:30dbussinkyeah, could be useful, but we need better platform detection for that
18:40:44dbussinki could benchmark with that some more
18:41:21djwhittdbussink: yeah, I've had the same experience with compiler flags in Gentoo
18:41:44djwhittall I ever use is -O2 -mtune=my-cpu-type -march=my-cpu-type
18:42:03dbussinkand since we still have a lot to gain with just being smarter inside rubinius, i don't we think we should do exotic gcc things
18:42:03djwhittomitting frame pointer helps too
18:42:12djwhittbut at the expense of being able to debug stuff
18:42:13dbussinkyeah, but we need that for debugging afaik
18:42:15DefilerGCC's -O2 is already so smart that the rest just seem like a waste of effort
18:42:15Defilerheh
18:42:39djwhittsome stuff like unrolling loops actually slows stuff down
18:42:47djwhittbecause the loops no longer fit inside the cache
18:42:51dbussinkdjwhitt: well, that actually broke stuff on linux
18:43:08dbussinkwe had funrolls, but alas, no more
18:43:17djwhittfast-math can legitimately speed stuff up too
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18:43:34djwhittbut I think it make some math stuff wrong
18:43:36dbussinkyeah, but you have to be really careful with that
18:43:43djwhittdon't know the details about that one though
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18:43:48dbussinkbecause it breaks floating point stuff
18:43:56rueGetting a SIGSEGV on HEAD with DEV=1
18:44:05dbussinkhmm, platform?
18:44:09rueTrying sans DEV
18:44:21enebo enters the room.
18:44:24rueFreeBSD meow.kittensoft.org 6.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE
18:44:51dbussinkah, strange, i haven't had a sigsegv there, only the parser / compiler issue
18:45:25dbussinki have 6.3 btw
18:46:20rueThis is new as of my last commits
18:46:33rueI think anyway, still need to check straightline
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18:48:54ruedbussink: Only fails with DEV=1
18:49:04dbussinkrue: that's really strange
18:49:17rueSo this may be a week or two old even
18:50:11DefilerAnyone feel like doing battle with what I think is a lightning/ffi problem?
18:50:55dbussinkis there any way to properly debug ffi atm?
18:51:12rueSure, with GDB :)
18:51:12dbussinkwould love to be able so simply look at what gets passed down to the c functions
18:51:19DefilerI haven't figured out a way, no
18:51:19dbussinkyeah, i know
18:51:42DefilerAs far as I can tell, this signature is broken
18:51:43Defiler[:state, :string, :string, :int, :int], :object
18:52:03dbussinkwhat goes wrong?
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18:52:13rueBroken how? Incorrect for the function, passed wrong, converted wrong?
18:53:08DefilerSIGILL
18:53:20Defiler(on Linux 64 and MacOS 32, thus far)
18:53:55Defilerslightly different failures.. on MacOS, you can get in far enough to see it mangle up the first 'int' argument.. on Linux, it just does SIGILL before that
18:54:05DefilerWhich makes sense, given that we use different ffi techniques in the two places
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18:56:58DefilerI might be diagnosing it wrong, of course
18:59:19dbussinkDefiler: might also be the cause of the problems on os x ppc
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18:59:45dbussinkbut what about the problems with symbols and the parser? maybe it extracts the wrong value from the ffi typedefs
19:01:16DefilerI am working on reproducing it with a more trivial setup here
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19:02:51dbussinkbut i'm off, time for some social time spending, back later
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19:10:29rueWhat is this 'social' time?
19:12:10DefilerSounds subversive
19:14:36headiushiya hiya
19:14:45headiushow are things
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19:29:51Defilerheadius: Happy President's Day
19:30:02headiusit is, isn't it!
19:30:10headiuswe're at the sun office today and there's not a soul around
19:30:17headiuswe didn't plan this trip very well
19:30:21DefilerI just found out that this is an Engine Yard holiday, which explains a lot ha
19:30:36headiusso it's been pretty quiet in here then?
19:30:45DefilerYeah
19:31:06headiusI have forgotten what a day off is like
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19:37:13Silexabout the gcc discussion, maybe there is a slight diff between -O2 and -O3
19:37:15Silex(fwiw)
19:37:48DefilerWhat are you running that shows a difference?
19:37:53jeremydurham enters the room.
19:38:32Silexno I'm talking theory
19:38:40SilexI have nothing to back that up :)
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19:39:02DefilerWell, if there is a benchmark that shows it being worth doing, we will switch to -O3.
19:39:03Silexbut theorically -O3 is more agressive about optimisation, but considered less stable (logical)
19:39:08jeremydurhamtbmcmullen: hey. Congrats :)
19:39:21rue-O3 is largely useless
19:39:26DefilerIf it never crashes, it is stable enough :)
19:39:32Silexoh I think you'd stay with O3, except if performance becomes an issue maybe
19:39:39Silex*O2
19:39:58Silexit's not like you'll gain much
19:40:29DefilerI thought you were just suggesting that we would gain something?
19:40:46Silexyou'd probably gain but not much
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19:41:18Silexthe best optimisations are done in the code anyway :)
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19:42:09djwhittmy experience with O3 on Gentoo has been that it makes things rather unstable
19:42:16DefilerI haven't worked myself up to watching it yet, but.. http://www.infoq.com/interviews/wilson-bilkovich-discusses-rubinius
19:42:41djwhittSilex: which I guess basically agrees with what you're saying
19:43:21Silexdjwhitt: yeah, I use O3 for personal stuffs when I need a little extra speed and O2 everywhere else
19:43:59Silexbut usually I gain less than 2% :P
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19:45:54scooprI took a bad habit writing -O9 everywhere in my dos days =) (that just puts -O3, but there ever happens to be -O4 it would use that, etc.)
19:46:45Defiler-Ox does something as well, right?
19:46:46SilexI think optimisation should be done by choosing the right design/algorithm and data structures instead of expecting some compiler magic :)
19:47:27DefilerThen the real world shows up at your door =(
19:47:32Silex\o/
19:47:59Silexit's already amazing what -O2 does
19:48:52scooprhighlevel opts should definetly be design/algo stuff, but lower level optimization should definately be all compiler magic
19:49:04Silexscoopr: good point
19:49:27DefilerI think compiler magic needs to come last, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth looking at
19:49:32langenbergstill talking about those GCC optimizations?
19:50:35scoopron that note, what ever the optimization level, it should still yield a working program =)
19:50:57scooprassuming at least somewhat conformant code
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19:56:06rueNoo
19:56:09rueWait yes
19:56:12rueNo
19:56:19rueWhat?
19:56:29langenbergDoes this VM makes a java-like performance possible?
19:56:45DefilerEventually, yes
19:57:02DefilerWe don't do JIT yet, though we (as of the last couple weeks) now have the infrastructure for it
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19:57:14djwhittthis VM + lots of smart people + lots of time I think ;)
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19:57:54DefilerWell, sure.. that's how everything challenging works
19:58:09djwhittyeah, not knocking it or anything
19:58:24langenbergGood to know the infrastructure is at least ready for it
19:58:36langenbergWhat steps need to be taken?
19:59:02DefilerLots of analysis about when and where it makes sense to do JIT, to begin with
19:59:48DefilerThen wiring up a runtime bytecode -> machine code translation process
20:00:10DefilerAfter that, it just needs to swap in a new pointer in the SendSite that points to the native code, rather than the CompiledMethod object
20:00:36DefilerWe have a ton of easier optimizations to do first, though, so I doubt JIT is anywhere on the horizon
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20:02:34langenbergSo if I understand this right, the actual code is compiled into bytecode. And with JIT, the actual assembler code is getting stored somewhere in the memory, waiting to be called?
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20:05:58rueBasically, 1) Think 2) Implement JIT 3) ??? 4) PROFIT!
20:06:16therealadamyou forgot "chase skirt"
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20:08:44Defilerlangenberg: Not exactly.. compiling to native code is expensive
20:08:55Defilerlangenberg: So most JIT systems only do it when a method is determined to be 'hot' enough
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20:09:44Defilerlangenberg: hence the 'just in time' (lame) terminology
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20:24:26rueHmm? I thought it just meant that it compiles 'just in time' for execution
20:24:37DefilerRight
20:25:05rueDoes not imply hotness in any way though--not that I dispute that that is probably how most systems handle it
20:25:54DefilerWhat I took langenberg's "So if I understand this" line to mean was that the assembly code was always there, waiting
20:26:05Defiler..when in reality it does not get generated until 'just' before execution
20:26:12DefilerSo that is what I was addressing
20:29:57rueAh, sure
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20:37:49Silexwriting a VM sounds tough business
20:38:18DefilerFun work if you can get it, though :)
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20:39:28Silexwell, you do everything from parsing ruby to "executing" it I guess ?
20:39:56DefilerYep
20:40:06DefilerIt is a big job. Ruby is a complex language.
20:40:19DefilerWe would be so done by now if this were Lua. Hah
20:41:12Silexhehe
20:41:32Silexyeah I guess parsing is more or less the "easy" work that needs to be done
20:41:37Silexbut once you have the trees all set
20:41:44Defilerparsing ruby is ridiculously hard, actually
20:41:49SilexI have no clue how you do for optimising what needs to be done
20:41:55DefilerWe got this far because we were able to reuse the grammar file from ruby 1.8
20:42:01Silexoh ? okay
20:42:06Defiler..but zenspider is working on a pure-Ruby replacement
20:42:13DefilerSo that we can change it more readily
20:42:31SilexI come from the c++ world and I always thougth c++'s syntax was ridiculously hard
20:42:41DefilerYeah, C++ has some fun ambiguity
20:42:42Silexbut I guess Ruby has so many little syntax hacks that it makes it difficult
20:43:04DefilerRuby lets you do stuff like some_method(<<-ARGUMENT_ONE, <<-ARGUMENT_TWO)
20:43:21Defiler..and then you have two back-to-back literal string blocks that end with ARGUMENT_ONE and ARGUMENT_TWO respectively
20:43:27Defilerwhee
20:43:32Silexwow
20:44:06DefilerIt is interesting working on a VM and compiler for a language that was designed to run on an interpreter
20:44:22DefilerI think Ruby is much more powerful and useful because of that heritage.. but it doesn't make writing a new implementation easy
20:44:30drbrainDefiler: "change it more readily" hahaha
20:44:32SilexI bet
20:44:41Defilerdrbrain: Hey I had to think of a reason ha ha
20:45:00DefilerI wish I had had my awesome Robot Jox t-shirt in time for this interview
20:45:07DefilerWe can live. We can both live.
20:45:46zenspiderC++'s syntax IS ridiculously hard... but so is ruby's. :)
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20:48:04rueUh-oh, he has risen!
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20:56:16tbmcmullenjeremydurham: much delayed thanks
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21:07:52rueUgh, I wrote a book
21:11:19VVSizwhoa! :)
21:11:21ezmobiuswhat did you write a book on?
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21:21:24rueezmobius: See your e-mail :P
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21:22:36ezmobiusk
21:26:16ezmobiusrue: agreed
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21:29:37rueI should try to curtail my writing
21:31:23ezmobiusnah its all good, i went on a bit myself
21:31:28rueHeh
21:31:36ruemod_scgi is a really nice implementation
21:31:40ezmobiusi think we're on the right track though
21:31:51ezmobiusyeah scgi is probably the right protocol to use
21:31:58rueFar cry from the mod_wsgi 10000 lines of code
21:32:08ezmobiusyeah totally
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21:37:37cremesi'm trying to get an instance of rubuildius going for osx_ppc; anyone have a working pastie script that takes stdin?
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21:41:57rueAlright, be back in a bit
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21:47:27agardinermorning
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21:48:00brixenmorning agardiner
21:48:07agardinerheya brixen
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22:31:46antaresDefiler, ping
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22:47:39ruegraza_: Any luck with git?
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22:49:37antaresrue, hey mind reviewing a small shotgun doc patch?
22:49:52antaresrue, I want to get some feedback before I move on
22:49:58grazai got somewhere eventually... i think it's ok now.
22:50:32grazaremoving the git compiled from the source tarball was a pain
22:52:36dbussinkpackage management for the win!
22:52:41grazaMacports was the way to go in the end
22:52:41grazaunfortunately, now it won't build
22:52:56dbussinkzenspider: you're into the parser / compiler, right?
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22:56:46rueantares: Ah, sure, post it up
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22:58:04antaresrue, pastie or LH ticket, what do you prefer? it is basically not yet ready to be merged anyway... probably too much stuff is got wrong
22:58:12grazaOS X PPC 10.4.11 build failure: http://pastie.org/153961
22:58:17rueJust pastie it
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22:59:38dbussinkgraza_: does it work if you remove that line 29?
23:01:14grazait gets further... until it reaches another instance of the same struct
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23:03:15dbussinkgraza_: does 10.4 provide ucontext.h ?
23:03:17grazahere: http://pastie.org/153963 and so kept removing those until I got this: http://pastie.org/153965
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23:05:02dbussinkgraza_: yeah, looks like a ucontext problem
23:05:30dbussinkgraza_: is there a file /usr/include/ucontext.h ?
23:09:14ArjenHuzzah! I think it compiled... :)
23:10:09dbussinkArjen_: any specific issues that should be documented?
23:10:37ArjenDon't know. I installed more packages then the documentation mentioned.
23:11:10Arjenrubinius 0.8.0 (ruby 1.8.6 compatible) (f43383a15) (02/17/2008) [i686-pc-linux-gnu]
23:11:17ArjenSweet.
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23:14:37antaresrue, http://pastie.org/private/yultm4bbcem9ywhve2e4lw
23:14:42Arjendbussink, I don't think anyone with a little more linux experience can't work it out though.
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