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| 00:00:13 | Defiler | Shoot |
| 00:00:36 | djwhitt | spec/core/bignum/bignum_spec.rb - I don't understand why that is in spec/core and not spec/ruby/1.8/core |
| 00:01:18 | djwhitt | also, it breaks on 64bit linux, but I was going to fix that |
| 00:06:54 | evan | thats in there because it's rubinius specific |
| 00:07:56 | djwhitt | really? I figured the Bignum threshold was the same on MRI |
| 00:08:01 | evan | nope |
| 00:08:10 | djwhitt | ah, ok |
| 00:08:14 | djwhitt | heh, guess I should have just checked |
| 00:08:16 | evan | thats not a bug either, it's architected that way |
| 00:08:27 | Fullmoon enters the room. | |
| 00:08:32 | Defiler | architected is like planned, but awesome-er |
| 00:08:49 | djwhitt | heh |
| 00:09:44 | evan | Defiler: precisely my dear Wilson. |
| 00:10:22 | Defiler | Earlier I was planning to get some food |
| 00:10:29 | Defiler | but now I have decided to architect a meal into my evening |
| 00:11:08 | evan | a splendid idea! |
| 00:11:41 | djwhitt | ok, then the question is why doesn't that pass for me |
| 00:11:41 | evan | i'm preparing my cargo for this evenings departure |
| 00:11:55 | evan | djwhitt: because the threshold is different on 64bit |
| 00:12:07 | evan | the threshold is sizeof(long) - 3 |
| 00:12:29 | djwhitt | doesn't pass on my 32bit machine either though |
| 00:12:34 | benburkert leaves the room. | |
| 00:12:51 | Defiler | Can you paste the failures? |
| 00:14:18 | evan | djwhitt: seems to pass here |
| 00:14:19 | djwhitt | oh wait, never mind, I'm a moron |
| 00:14:25 | djwhitt | just got confused by my terminals |
| 00:14:30 | macournoyer enters the room. | |
| 00:15:41 | evan | thou art not a moron, simply a confused chap! |
| 00:16:40 | zimbatm leaves the room. | |
| 00:17:42 | djwhitt | so MRI gives you one extra bit before switching to Bignum |
| 00:17:59 | evan | yep |
| 00:18:07 | djwhitt | why'd you guys do it differently? |
| 00:18:13 | djwhitt | just out of curiosity |
| 00:18:26 | evan | we have more information encoded in the immediate values |
| 00:18:28 | Defiler | We reserved more space for 'tags' on our pointers |
| 00:18:35 | Defiler | Because we are awesome |
| 00:18:46 | evan | plus, we implement symbol as immediates in a safe way, unlike MRI |
| 00:19:07 | evan | perhaps you'll recall the symbol <=> Object object_id collusion problem of last year |
| 00:19:22 | evan | er. collision, not collusion. |
| 00:19:25 | evan | they weren't trying to destroy us. |
| 00:19:29 | djwhitt | hehe |
| 00:19:42 | djwhitt | actually, I don't, but it sounds terrifying |
| 00:19:46 | Defiler | http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-core/7414 |
| 00:19:51 | Defiler | is the thread |
| 00:20:16 | evan | ah, 2 years ago now. |
| 00:20:18 | Defiler | Those symbols and objects.. they are in it together.. plotting our downfall |
| 00:20:22 | evan | how time does fly. |
| 00:21:34 | chris2 leaves the room. | |
| 00:23:54 | djwhitt | hmm... don't totally understand what was going on there, but I think I get the idea - too many symbols = bad news |
| 00:24:09 | Defiler | Yeah, it isn't the clearest writeup ever |
| 00:24:25 | Defiler | ..but basically, it was possible to allocate symbols that looked like objects to MRI, and terrible things would happen |
| 00:24:52 | evan | they end up adding a fix that works, but it's a bit of a kludge. I wanted to avoid the whole problem |
| 00:25:43 | djwhitt | so, symbols as immediates... what does that mean? |
| 00:26:06 | Defiler | Check out shotgun/lib/oop.h |
| 00:26:12 | Defiler | It shows how things are 'tagged' |
| 00:26:30 | Defiler | If something has the correct tag, we know it is a symbol, and use the rest of the address as an index into the symbol table |
| 00:26:43 | Defiler | If it has a different tag, we know it is an Object, and handle it normally |
| 00:26:48 | evan | djwhitt: pointers, ie, addresses of objects in memory, are always word aligned, ie, the bottom 2 bits are always 0 |
| 00:26:57 | evan | djwhitt: that leaves 3 billion values unused |
| 00:27:07 | evan | so we use them. |
| 00:27:14 | evan | because we're not wasteful |
| 00:27:24 | evan | and neither was smalltalk (where ruby got this trick from) |
| 00:27:30 | Defiler | All those poor integers, going unloved through life |
| 00:28:25 | evan | and the indian shed a single tear for the Fixnums.... |
| 00:29:16 | Defiler | Before the world is devoured by the wolf, the raven spirit will gather up all the fixnums |
| 00:29:39 | evan | and run them all to the great mud god on the hill. |
| 00:31:15 | djwhitt | interesting stuff (oop.h I mean) |
| 00:31:43 | djwhitt | though, your umm... integer mythology is quiet poetic too ;) |
| 00:32:00 | Defiler | evan: OK, so.. I have a sockaddr_un packed up as a string |
| 00:32:08 | Defiler | evan: I need a cross-platform way to get the path out of it |
| 00:33:17 | Defiler | What I have in there right now is almost certainly wrong on linux systems |
| 00:33:25 | evan | ummmmmmm |
| 00:33:35 | evan | use structgen |
| 00:33:42 | evan | to create an FFI::Struct for sockaddr_un |
| 00:33:55 | evan | then map the string to the struct, and access the path field of the struct |
| 00:33:56 | Defiler | There is an FFI::Struct subclass for sockaddr_un |
| 00:34:01 | Defiler | Or do you mean something else |
| 00:34:05 | evan | thats what i mean |
| 00:34:18 | Defiler | OK. Got a second to look at the specifics with me? |
| 00:34:20 | evan | where is that struct? |
| 00:34:34 | Defiler | lib/socket.rb line 298 |
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| 00:34:46 | evan | eww. |
| 00:34:54 | evan | a post if on a class |
| 00:34:57 | evan | gross. |
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| 00:35:11 | Defiler | I didn't write this.. but that's actually moderately common |
| 00:35:14 | evan | anyways. |
| 00:35:29 | evan | Defiler: doesn't mean i like it. |
| 00:35:33 | Defiler | Yeah |
| 00:35:43 | evan | the information grouping is completely wrong |
| 00:35:53 | evan | anyways. |
| 00:36:17 | evan | who did write this |
| 00:36:22 | evan | yikes, it's scary. |
| 00:36:23 | Defiler | Some traitor |
| 00:36:24 | Defiler | :) |
| 00:36:26 | evan | they used pack. |
| 00:36:42 | evan | so, you're going to have to change it |
| 00:36:55 | evan | because you need to be able to make one directly from data |
| 00:36:57 | evan | not from a filename |
| 00:37:01 | Defiler | Yeah |
| 00:37:32 | evan | the style on this code is bizarre. |
| 00:37:36 | evan | it's very un eric. |
| 00:37:44 | evan | he must have been drunk or something. |
| 00:37:49 | Defiler | Must be the space parasites |
| 00:37:57 | Defiler | Sometimes they make him type things |
| 00:38:06 | evan | there are all kinds of extra ('s and spaces and stuff. |
| 00:38:56 | evan | so, what i'd do is |
| 00:39:05 | evan | move initialize to self.for_filename |
| 00:39:21 | crafterm | morning all! |
| 00:39:22 | evan | no initialize, use FFI::Struct's for that |
| 00:40:32 | evan | i'd make a self.from_data, that creates a MemoryPointer, fills it with a passed in string, the calls SockAddr_Un.new |
| 00:40:35 | evan | crafterm: morning! |
| 00:40:39 | Defiler | Actually, I don't even need to be able to initialize it from data |
| 00:40:49 | evan | yeah ya do |
| 00:41:00 | Defiler | Because the only reason I have said data is that that is what 'getsockname(fd)' returns |
| 00:41:04 | evan | you have a string that is the data of the struct |
| 00:41:04 | crafterm | evan: yo mate, all packed? its going to be a warm week :) |
| 00:41:09 | evan | crafterm: i saw! |
| 00:41:17 | evan | yep, finishing packing now |
| 00:41:25 | crafterm | coolio, bring some sunnies :) |
| 00:41:30 | evan | heh, will do. |
| 00:41:45 | Defiler | So if I fix this struct up, I can make another wrapped for getsockname that hands me back the actual FFI::Struct instance, right? |
| 00:41:55 | Defiler | No need to create it twice |
| 00:42:05 | Defiler | wrapped = wrapper |
| 00:42:27 | evan | Defiler: oh, yeah, sure. |
| 00:42:33 | lopex leaves the room. | |
| 00:42:34 | evan | thats a cleaner interface anyway |
| 00:42:47 | evan | that dealing with strings full of platform specific data |
| 00:42:55 | Defiler | OK, I will architect that then |
| 00:42:56 | Defiler | :) |
| 00:42:57 | evan | you'll have to hand them out to MRI as strings at some point |
| 00:43:06 | evan | Defiler: :D |
| 00:44:07 | Defiler | I love all the automated email I get when the month turns over in UTC |
| 00:44:20 | evan | hehe |
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| 00:48:36 | djwhitt | http://pastie.caboo.se/160342 <- that look ok? |
| 00:48:59 | evan | fine by me. |
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| 00:54:04 | boyscout | 1 commit by David Whittington |
| 00:54:05 | boyscout | * Modified Bignum threshold specs to take into account platform wordsize; 605bdc5 |
| 00:56:11 | imajes leaves the room. | |
| 00:58:47 | Defiler | It makes me so happy that those pass |
| 00:58:52 | Defiler | Changing that was a hassle |
| 00:59:18 | evan | heh |
| 00:59:31 | evan | now you know how I feel, just the fact that the VM even functions! |
| 00:59:37 | evan | delights me. |
| 00:59:43 | Defiler | Yeah, I feel that |
| 01:00:23 | Defiler | We are going places with this project |
| 01:00:43 | evan | ha! http://icedtea.classpath.org/wiki/Main_Page |
| 01:01:02 | evan | icedtea is openjdk, building with normal GNU tools and without the binary old parts |
| 01:01:38 | Defiler | neat |
| 01:01:44 | djwhitt | so, there are a ton of File and IO specs that fail, is there something fundamental keeping those from working or are they just things you guys haven't gotten around to implementing yet? |
| 01:02:45 | djwhitt | just looking for something to work on that isn't too far over my head |
| 01:02:46 | Defiler | The latter |
| 01:02:49 | djwhitt | k |
| 01:03:26 | Defiler | Fixing those will make a huge number of people happy, myself included |
| 01:03:38 | Defiler | Since I am working on socket.rb quite a lot these days, and that relies heavily on IO |
| 01:06:31 | evan | Defiler: I've got getting IO.select working 100% on my list for the sprint |
| 01:11:20 | Defiler | Oh, that would be nice |
| 01:12:21 | evan | it's going to require a bit of VM work, but i'm going to add a Scheduler::Work class, which lets you describe what you want to the scheduler |
| 01:15:42 | djwhitt | when is this sprint that I keep hearing about? |
| 01:16:31 | evan | next week |
| 01:16:33 | evan | in australia |
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| 01:18:59 | djwhitt | australia eh? that's quite a trip |
| 01:20:22 | evan | 15 hours |
| 01:20:27 | evan | should be lots of fun though |
| 01:20:32 | evan | i leave in about 6 hours |
| 01:20:51 | rue | headius: Looks like a typo in the README: "The Java version is be tightly integrated" |
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| 02:19:42 | headius | rue: that's intentional |
| 02:20:06 | headius | we're trying to appeal to inner-city youth |
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| 02:23:51 | rue | Heh |
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| 03:08:51 | headius | quiet sunday nights |
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| 03:10:05 | agardiner | ...or mondays for those on this side of the world :-) |
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| 03:18:36 | rue | It is Sunday? |
| 03:19:16 | agardiner | not here it isn't... 2.20pm, Monday |
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| 03:29:07 | manveru | monday... 12:30 |
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| 04:00:44 | evan | agardiner: see my comment about the sampler? |
| 04:00:55 | agardiner | no... lemme take a look |
| 04:01:49 | agardiner | ok... i know what you're saying |
| 04:02:10 | evan | if we have to, we could add some simple increment locking |
| 04:02:27 | agardiner | when i finally found what was causing the problem I took a look at what would be required to fix it, and decided i needed to run things by you before making any changes |
| 04:02:35 | evan | ok |
| 04:02:49 | evan | also, on your change for fixing the custom_iseq |
| 04:02:58 | evan | i'm thinking we need a better way to handle than |
| 04:03:03 | agardiner | since adding SIGPROF to libev definitely has some complications |
| 04:03:17 | evan | than enlarging the fast_context for a very seldom used field |
| 04:03:21 | agardiner | hehe, yeah, i figured you'd want to talk about that one too... |
| 04:03:32 | agardiner | yeah, that was my concern |
| 04:03:32 | evan | tell ya what. |
| 04:03:39 | evan | lets talk in person about it :D |
| 04:03:43 | evan | i'm packing up for the airport now. |
| 04:03:51 | agardiner | hehe... what a great idea! :-D |
| 04:04:24 | agardiner | there's a bunch of stuff i want to talk to you about |
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| 04:14:29 | evan | ok, off to the airport |
| 04:14:36 | evan | see y'all soon! |
| 04:14:38 | agardiner | have a good flight! |
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| 04:25:17 | TheVoice | agardiner: where you guys headed? |
| 04:26:42 | agardiner | i'm not headed anywhere... but, evan is headed down under (where i am) |
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| 04:31:00 | agardiner | TheVoice: there's a sprint taking place next weekend in Sydney |
| 04:31:16 | TheVoice | ah cool |
| 04:31:21 | TheVoice | have fun |
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| 05:30:11 | rubuildius_ppc | David Whittington: 605bdc53e; 1723 files, 5814 examples, 19809 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/160398 |
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| 12:33:29 | headius | morning! |
| 12:36:14 | scoopr | g'day! |
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| 14:16:27 | murphee | ahoi - anyone seen this work on making MRI/YARV's GC CopyOnWrite? |
| 14:17:03 | murphee | http://tinyurl.com/2lxfp8 |
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| 15:21:48 | headius | when does evan fly out? |
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| 15:31:59 | djwhitt | headius: he flew out last night |
| 15:32:04 | headius | ahh ok |
| 15:32:11 | headius | so he's probably still on a plane :) |
| 15:32:24 | djwhitt | yeah, probably |
| 15:32:35 | djwhitt | he said it was a 15hr flight |
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| 15:47:53 | hoopy | is wondering if rubinius would build on a chumby |
| 15:48:21 | headius | what's a chumby |
| 15:48:47 | hoopy | small linux powered wireless alarm clock |
| 15:48:53 | hoopy | has an ARM processor |
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| 15:49:15 | scoopr | currently the ffi doesn't compile on arm, unless the libffi switch happened already |
| 15:49:36 | headius | I think it mostly did |
| 15:49:39 | headius | not sure about that thought |
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| 15:49:49 | headius | good move to get off a custom solution |
| 15:49:57 | headius | there's enough per-platform challenges as it is |
| 15:49:58 | djwhitt | yeah, it happened |
| 15:50:17 | scoopr | ah, I may have to try again on my linkstationpro (arm machine as well) |
| 15:50:28 | djwhitt | evan stripped out the last of lightning last night |
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| 17:16:26 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vladimir Sizikov |
| 17:16:27 | boyscout | * Adjusted syslog specs to better handle impls that don't provide syslog.; 77a717f |
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| 18:26:05 | VVSiz | brixen: are you there? |
| 18:28:11 | brixen | hey VVSiz, what's up? |
| 18:28:22 | VVSiz | hi |
| 18:28:43 | VVSiz | quick question: I saw -O (--report) option in mspec, but it doesn't seem to be working |
| 18:28:50 | brixen | ahh, yes |
| 18:29:14 | brixen | not implemented yet, rue had some stuff he was working on before I rewrote mspec |
| 18:29:30 | brixen | I'll get with him and find out what's the plan |
| 18:29:54 | VVSiz | OK, thanks. looks like an interesting option though :) |
| 18:30:14 | brixen | yeah, two options, one to just report what is guarded, and one to verify the result of running the spec |
| 18:30:38 | pth | [newbie Q]: I found that a,b,c = *0..2 is not working correctly (assigns the range to a and nil to b,c). Splat is sort of a compiler problem, but would be acceptable to write a spec under range? |
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| 18:30:40 | brixen | e.g. if ruby_bug is the guard and the spec doesn't fail on "standard" ruby, that would be reported |
| 18:31:10 | brixen | pth: I think probably under splat in the spec/ruby/1.8/language specs |
| 18:31:27 | pth | Thanks I of course missed that |
| 18:31:42 | brixen | the compiler should probably output :to_ary on the range when it sees the '*' |
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| 18:32:43 | brixen | pth: hmm, the right place is probably spec/ruby/1.8/language/variables_spec.rb |
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| 18:34:32 | pth | Thanks again, I was just reading through. Putting together a little demo for tonight's rubymi (michigan) meeting, though showing how to write a spec would be good (so I am learning myself) |
| 18:34:47 | brixen | ah, sounds cool |
| 18:35:00 | brixen | gonna run some quick errands, bbiab |
| 18:35:13 | brixen | there should be someone here who can answer spec questions for ya |
| 18:35:37 | pth | I think i have it from here, but I will make noise if needed, thanks again |
| 18:35:59 | brixen | np, thanks for getting the word out :) |
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| 18:50:31 | Defiler | pth: Hey.. while you are writing that spec.. |
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| 18:51:11 | pth | Yes (I have a git-diff, still not sure how to do a git-format-patch |
| 18:51:32 | Defiler | pth: http://svn.codehaus.org/jruby/trunk/jruby/test/test_array.rb |
| 18:51:47 | Defiler | pth: Could you also make sure we have a spec that matches what 'def test_splatting' does, midway through that file? |
| 18:52:00 | pth | will check it now |
| 18:52:07 | Defiler | Specifically, the second assertion in that test |
| 18:53:42 | pth | (refreshing my jruby code now), subversion I know, git not so much |
| 18:56:35 | headius | in fact, make sure that whole file is covered in the specs and we'll just delete it :) |
| 18:57:15 | headius | that test is a little weird, I think that's covered somewhere else |
| 18:57:29 | pth | another day, right now I have to finish tonight's presentation |
| 18:59:08 | KirinDave enters the room. | |
| 18:59:26 | pth | anyone there want to explain to a poor subversion guy, how to use the recommended git-format-patch? when I do a git-diff, I see a nice patch, but the wiki requests that we use git-format-patch, which apparently does nothing (because I am most certainly using it incorrectly) |
| 19:00:46 | cremes | pth: i might be able to help; have you followed the directions listed at: http://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/using-git |
| 19:01:33 | pth | I did sometime ago, but I may have wrecked something with various system upgrades, I will double check, thanks for the link |
| 19:02:54 | cremes | pth: okay; usually the problem is what branch you are currently "checked out" in when you run 'git format-patch' so be careful of that |
| 19:05:47 | rubuildius_ppc | Vladimir Sizikov: 77a717f59; 1723 files, 5814 examples, 19809 expectations, 0 failures, 1 error; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/160689 |
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| 19:13:42 | pth | cremes: thanks I finally got (g)it |
| 19:14:13 | cremes | pth: congratulations! good luck at your presentation... |
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| 19:15:03 | cremes | ignore the rubuildius_ppc error; it's due to a 'sleep' test taking too long due to the machine being overloaded |
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| 20:33:43 | wycats | drbrain: why is autorequire deprecated in gems? |
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| 21:17:14 | drbrain | wycats: it's not deprecated, it's removed |
| 21:17:24 | drbrain | wycats: 99.999% of the time, you don't need it |
| 21:17:42 | drbrain | Kernel#require will do the right thing |
| 21:18:40 | ezmobius | drbrain: so should we not be using Gem.activate(name, true, *ver) ? |
| 21:18:52 | ezmobius | shoudl we just be doing gem 'foo'; require 'foo' ? |
| 21:18:53 | drbrain | ezmobius: no |
| 21:19:10 | drbrain | you should be doing just require 'foo' |
| 21:19:34 | drbrain | no need for gem 'foo' unless you're also supplying the version, or you're overriding something in the stdlib |
| 21:19:54 | drbrain | which I think is only necessary for the soap4r gem at this time |
| 21:20:12 | drbrain | it used to be that RubyGems wasn't as smart/friendly |
| 21:21:40 | ezmobius | k thx |
| 21:22:25 | rue | Hrm. MacPorts is really unreliable building dependencies |
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| 21:30:35 | pth | Quick question ~how many committers are there in the Rubinius project? (I am doing a little show and tell tonight at the RubyMI meeting) |
| 21:31:39 | ezmobius | 70 or 80 last time i heard |
| 21:31:52 | pth | thanks |
| 21:34:28 | djwhitt | git-log | grep Author | sort | cut -d '<' -f 1 | uniq | wc -l |
| 21:34:37 | djwhitt | that gives me 117 |
| 21:34:47 | pth | djwhitt: Thanks |
| 21:34:51 | djwhitt | no prob |
| 21:34:58 | pth | I was going to saw almost a 100 :-) |
| 21:43:31 | cremes | OT... anyone know if there is a way to send a CLOSE appleevent from the command line on osx? |
| 21:44:23 | drbrain | cremes: quit? |
| 21:44:24 | wmoxam leaves the room. | |
| 21:44:32 | cremes | drbrain: yep |
| 21:44:45 | drbrain | cremes: with osascript, yes |
| 21:44:56 | agardiner enters the room. | |
| 21:45:03 | cremes | drbrain: okay, mnan osascript here i come! |
| 21:45:11 | drbrain | something like tell "blah.app" quit |
| 21:48:24 | drbrain | cremes: you can play around in Script Editor |
| 21:52:30 | cremes | drbrain: awesome! figured it out... wrote my first applescript today. :) |
| 21:52:48 | drbrain | cremes: and, hopefully your last! :) |
| 21:52:52 | cremes | heh |
| 21:53:01 | cremes | it felt like... ruby! |
| 21:53:03 | drbrain | I hear that applescript is a terrible language to work in |
| 21:53:14 | cremes | i don't know about that |
| 21:53:20 | cremes | tell application "Mail" |
| 21:53:22 | cremes | quit |
| 21:53:23 | cremes | end tell |
| 21:53:33 | cremes | kind of natural, really |
| 21:55:24 | drbrain | it's a ruse to suck you in |
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| 22:12:31 | dbussink | howdy ppl :) |
| 22:14:46 | dbussink | anything exiting happened when i was away? |
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| 22:15:15 | djwhitt | Rubinius is using libffi now |
| 22:15:50 | djwhitt | so things work much better on PPC and 64 bit platforms |
| 22:16:00 | dbussink | ah, that's really nice :) |
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| 22:17:16 | djwhitt | Evan and perhaps others are in Australia now for a sprint |
| 22:17:30 | djwhitt | so things are a bit quiet in here today |
| 22:17:38 | headius enters the room. | |
| 22:17:55 | drbrain | sprint is next weekend |
| 22:18:22 | drbrain | you still have time to buy tickets! |
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| 22:18:48 | dbussink | hehe, i don't have the time and money to spare :p |
| 22:18:59 | dbussink | it's like a 36 hour trip for me to even get there |
| 22:19:19 | dbussink | roommate had an internship in new zealand, the trip was really really long he said |
| 22:19:43 | agardiner | it is a long way... |
| 22:19:48 | djwhitt | ah, so Evan went there early then? |
| 22:20:04 | agardiner | yeah, he arrives today |
| 22:20:22 | dbussink | for evan it's not as far, from la it only half the travel i guess |
| 22:20:27 | dbussink | compared to europe |
| 22:20:38 | djwhitt | yeah, still far enough |
| 22:20:41 | djwhitt | 15hr |
| 22:20:42 | agardiner | 15 hours to LA, 22 to London |
| 22:21:16 | dbussink | going to portland in may / june, that's already a 13 hour trip |
| 22:21:19 | dbussink | or something like that |
| 22:21:27 | agardiner | not much fun, spending close to a whole day in a tin tube! |
| 22:21:54 | dbussink | agardiner: dunno if there even is a direct flight from amsterdam to australia |
| 22:22:07 | dbussink | transfers add so much time and opportunity for delay |
| 22:22:16 | agardiner | yeah, i don't think there is... you'd change at frankfurt, paris or london |
| 22:23:16 | dbussink | yeah, or go for the half way transfer to stretch the legs in hong kong / singapore or something like that |
| 22:23:23 | agardiner | yeah, transfers sure suck... if all goes well, you've got maybe an hour or two to kill |
| 22:23:43 | dbussink | i had to wait for like five hours once in washington |
| 22:23:43 | agardiner | but if things go bad (as they so often do), stress levels go through the roof! |
| 22:24:03 | skaar leaves the room. | |
| 22:24:11 | dbussink | plane was delayed because of bad weather over chicago |
| 22:24:16 | agardiner | fun... not! |
| 22:24:39 | agardiner | at least we don't get many weather delays down under... |
| 22:24:47 | dbussink | not really, we had only a small transfer window and the international arrival section was overcrowded |
| 22:25:03 | dbussink | so we were all stressing out for no reason :P |
| 22:27:33 | agardiner | makes the old adage so true - you need a holiday after your holiday! :-) |
| 22:28:01 | dbussink | hehe, well, only had a small stress moment today because the ticket machine at the railway station was broken :) |
| 22:28:28 | dbussink | and i always try hard not to be bothered by anything :) |
| 22:28:58 | agardiner | hah! that would be a major stress moment for me - we've got ticket inspectors who think they are the gestapo! |
| 22:28:59 | dbussink | when we went to the airport, we just skipped a subway train because it was so crowded, had all the time we needed |
| 22:29:16 | dbussink | agardiner: that was in germany, they invented that there ;) |
| 22:29:26 | agardiner | :-) |
| 22:29:45 | dbussink | for trips in europe, departing in germany is often closer and cheaper for me |
| 22:30:10 | ctennis enters the room. | |
| 22:30:14 | dbussink | some small airports where airlines like easyjet and ryanair depart from |
| 22:30:29 | agardiner | yeah, and cheaper too if you can go with them |
| 22:31:02 | agardiner | deregulation has really expanded the number of airports you can fly from/to these days |
| 22:31:16 | dbussink | yeah, a lot, our tickets to barcelona where 100 euro's with two people |
| 22:31:37 | dbussink | went to rome for the same amount |
| 22:31:48 | agardiner | well, somehow we always seem to miss out on the good deals like that... |
| 22:32:06 | dbussink | well, you're not the outback for nothing ;) |
| 22:32:08 | agardiner | but my sister-in-law was always off somewhere on a one pound ticket when she lived in London recently |
| 22:32:35 | dbussink | yeah, the dreaded 1 pound / euro tickets (taxes not included) |
| 22:32:42 | dbussink | but still cheap though :P |
| 22:32:47 | agardiner | hehe - i was actually referring to when we lived in london... |
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| 22:32:55 | dbussink | ah ok |
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| 22:33:39 | dbussink | well, european flight has really changed in the last few years |
| 22:33:41 | agardiner | my wife doesn't like to fly, which is probably the reason - we didn't look hard |
| 22:33:52 | dbussink | a lot more that for example domestic flights in the usa |
| 22:33:53 | agardiner | much prefer to take the Eurostar |
| 22:34:05 | dbussink | for shorter trips i also prefer the train |
| 22:34:18 | dbussink | but from here to barcelona / rome / etc is really long |
| 22:34:25 | agardiner | yeah, so much less hassle, and right to/from the center of the city |
| 22:34:32 | dbussink | i went to paris with the thalis, really nice |
| 22:35:26 | agardiner | yeah, you're tucked up in the corner a bit for those longer trips ;-) |
| 22:35:50 | dbussink | we're the center of europe! ;) |
| 22:36:02 | agardiner | :-D |
| 22:36:27 | agardiner | have they got a fast train to London these days? |
| 22:36:40 | dbussink | there is one from brussels now |
| 22:36:51 | agardiner | last time we took the train to amsterdam, it was fast to Brussels, then a slow rattler |
| 22:37:09 | dbussink | yeah, they're (still) working on that |
| 22:37:23 | agardiner | ahh well... at least they're working on it |
| 22:37:34 | agardiner | all we do is talk about improving the trains here in Oz |
| 22:37:41 | dbussink | they've been doing test drives |
| 22:37:48 | agardiner | been talking about that for a looonng time now |
| 22:38:11 | agile leaves the room. | |
| 22:38:28 | dbussink | well, we always complain here about the railways but when you are anywhere except for japan, you know you're actually kinda spoiled |
| 22:38:55 | dbussink | half hour based time tables, reasonably new trains |
| 22:38:55 | agardiner | you referring to the crowding? |
| 22:39:27 | dbussink | i don't live in the western part of the netherlands, the crowding is slightly less here :P |
| 22:39:37 | dbussink | but we're getting there |
| 22:39:58 | agardiner | yeah, same here |
| 22:41:19 | dbussink | gonna work in the neighborhood even, after my thesis talk next week :0 |
| 22:42:01 | dbussink | not sitting in a traffic jam here every morning is actually an exception, especially in the it business |
| 22:42:16 | agardiner | nice! that is a bonus |
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| 22:44:22 | dbussink | agardiner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSL-Zuid |
| 22:44:33 | dbussink | agardiner: they say it's gonna open this year |
| 22:45:08 | agardiner | cool! we're moving back to london in may, so might take advantage of that when it opens |
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| 22:48:33 | dbussink | anyone interested in seeing how a dutch tv show host handled a streaker in his show? :P |
| 22:48:56 | agardiner | yeah |
| 22:48:58 | agardiner | :-) |
| 22:49:06 | dbussink | http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=sWScqsYVjQY |
| 22:49:34 | dbussink | basic background: the host is a known homosexual and is usually pretty blunt |
| 22:50:33 | headius_ leaves the room. | |
| 22:51:00 | djwhitt | what's written on the streaker? |
| 22:51:14 | dbussink | vlees is moord == meat is killing |
| 22:51:31 | drbrain | probably "meat is murder" |
| 22:51:43 | dbussink | that's way better yeah :P |
| 22:51:44 | dbussink | doh "P |
| 22:52:29 | agardiner | the end is classic! |
| 22:52:49 | agardiner | i thought he was just going to ignore the guy |
| 22:53:05 | agardiner | but looks like he got more than he bargained for! :-D |
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| 22:53:48 | dbussink | i really had a laugh when i first saw this |
| 22:54:20 | foysavas leaves the room. | |
| 22:54:47 | agardiner | probably even funnier if you know what's being said! |
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| 22:55:55 | djwhitt | YouTube needs auto translation of spoken word |
| 22:56:09 | foysavas enters the room. | |
| 22:56:10 | agardiner | that would be a killer feature |
| 22:56:34 | djwhitt | I imagine it'll happen eventually |
| 22:56:38 | djwhitt | will probably take a while though |
| 22:56:53 | djwhitt | we have good speech to text |
| 22:56:58 | dbussink | one of the funny things he uses is a dutch expression that can't really be translated :0 |
| 22:57:08 | djwhitt | but translation engines aren't good yet |
| 22:57:11 | djwhitt | ah |
| 22:57:11 | agardiner | yeah, auto-translation's come a long way with the written word, but still a ways to go with voice |
| 22:58:47 | dbussink | well, i'm still surprised what it produces :) |
| 22:59:26 | dbussink | and i've worked with speech recognition software, in free form is still pretty much sucks, you need to use a domain specific grammar to get really good results |
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| 23:04:31 | drbrain | bah, no need for automatic |
| 23:04:41 | drbrain | do what LJ does for voice posts |
| 23:04:56 | drbrain | there are people who simply transcribe others' voice posts |
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| 23:19:54 | brixen | dbussink: do you recall offhand the time frame/commit hash of the fix for the symbol clashes? |
| 23:20:33 | dbussink | brixen: you mean the real collision or the parser problem? |
| 23:20:55 | dbussink | brixen: the first problem was fixed by evan in 30ee3e8853cd |
| 23:21:58 | brixen | dbussink: ok, cool. is this the other? c62daf7d6 |
| 23:22:36 | dbussink | brixen: yeah, probably |
| 23:22:38 | dbussink | brixen: why? |
| 23:22:46 | dbussink | as in, why do you want to know? |
| 23:24:13 | brixen | looking at replacing Hash in the VM with LookupTable, and optimizing it a bit |
| 23:24:39 | brixen | LookupTable will probably only take symbols for keys, but looking at allowing string keys too |
| 23:25:45 | dbussink | would strings be necessary? |
| 23:26:29 | drbrain | only if we're going to be adding symbols with \0 |
| 23:27:13 | brixen | dbussink: probably not 'necessary' but may be convenient, I'll see |
| 23:27:32 | dbussink | ah ok, well go for the simplest solution |
| 23:27:38 | dbussink | and only add stuff if / when needed |
| 23:28:35 | brixen | yep |
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| 23:42:32 | dbussink | wow, microsoft announced they'll revert the ie8 behavior to standard compliant by default |
| 23:43:25 | agardiner | probably worried about another billion euro fine! :-) |
| 23:43:40 | dbussink | at least something we in the eu are good for ;) |
| 23:43:51 | agardiner | :-D |
| 23:43:56 | brixen | dbussink: could they up that fine a little, just enough to make them bankrupt? |
| 23:44:30 | dbussink | brixen: maybe the usa can use it to fill up the trade deficit ;) |
| 23:44:31 | agardiner | need to be more than "a little"! |
| 23:44:39 | drbrain | brixen: that'd be a lot, as MS has tons of cash on hand |
| 23:44:55 | brixen | one can always wish |
| 23:45:39 | w1rele55 leaves the room. | |
| 23:45:47 | dbussink | but it would only be a tiny drop on the us national debt plate |
| 23:47:04 | dbussink | brixen: will we see anything from the lookuptable anytime? or is it still on the drawing board being architected :P |
| 23:47:39 | brixen | heh, mostly drawing board atm |
| 23:47:45 | brixen | of course you'll see something |
| 23:49:12 | brixen | I'm trying to get the hang of this freebsd atm, just installed a parallels image |
| 23:49:27 | dbussink | ah, did that a couple of weeks ago |
| 23:49:52 | dbussink | just changed the shell to bash, a lot more comfortable with that |
| 23:50:29 | brixen | yeah, was working on getting zsh installed with ports, since I hear a lot of folks like that |
| 23:50:29 | d2dchat leaves the room. | |
| 23:50:53 | drbrain | brixen: install sysutils/portupgrade |
| 23:51:07 | drbrain | then it's a lot simpler, portupgrade -N zsh |
| 23:51:11 | drbrain | or whatever |
| 23:51:34 | brixen | ahh ok |
| 23:51:54 | crossblaim enters the room. | |
| 23:52:03 | drbrain | also, I have a ready-to-go FreeBSD 7 image (with bash) if you want it |
| 23:52:04 | brixen | normal port install worked ok, just took forever to install all the deps |
| 23:52:10 | hoopy_ enters the room. | |
| 23:52:11 | drbrain | yeah |
| 23:52:23 | dbussink | drbrain: is it easy to upgrade 6.3 to 7? |
| 23:52:28 | brixen | drbrain: heh, I guess I'm mostly there now |
| 23:52:30 | RyanTM leaves the room. | |
| 23:52:33 | dbussink | drbrain: or is a reinstall the easiest solution? |
| 23:52:49 | drbrain | dbussink: 6.3 image to 7 image? |
| 23:52:58 | drbrain | or do you have a real install? |
| 23:52:59 | crafterm enters the room. | |
| 23:53:07 | dbussink | drbrain: it's a parallels image yeah |
| 23:53:30 | drbrain | dbussink: I'd start from scratch, rebuilding world on the image is gonna suck |
| 23:53:37 | drbrain | dbussink: I grabbed the 7.0 bootonly iso |
| 23:53:47 | dbussink | ah ok |
| 23:53:54 | drbrain | and installed from there, which took about an hour to get the base system |
| 23:53:56 | dbussink | well, i can keep the old image for reference sake |
| 23:54:05 | drbrain | yeah |
| 23:54:10 | sholden leaves the room. | |
| 23:54:12 | dbussink | probably a good thing to have multiple versions to test with |
| 23:54:33 | dbussink | but first, time to sleep :) |
| 23:54:42 | agardiner | night! |
| 23:54:47 | brixen | agardiner: night |
| 23:54:50 | dbussink | night! |
| 23:54:59 | agardiner | not me... dbussink! :-D |
| 23:54:59 | drbrain | dbussink: I can upload my image for you |
| 23:55:00 | brixen | oh nice, portupgrade is installing 1.8.6p111 for me :) |
| 23:55:07 | drbrain | dbussink: it's 2G uncompressed... |
| 23:55:25 | dbussink | drbrain: maybe an idea to share those somewhere for rubinius devs |
| 23:55:37 | dbussink | drbrain: with all the necessary tools like git etc. installed |
| 23:55:57 | drbrain | dbussink: that's where my image is sitting right now |
| 23:56:02 | brixen | drbrain: how do you page up in the console? |
| 23:56:11 | drbrain | brixen: scroll-lock |
| 23:56:27 | drbrain | then pgup-dn |
| 23:56:28 | dbussink | drbrain: where's that? |
| 23:56:33 | brixen | hrm, and that's where on a mac keyboard? |
| 23:56:48 | drbrain | brixen: it's not, hit the keyboard icon |
| 23:57:16 | dbussink | brixen: shift page up works for me i think |
| 23:57:26 | dbussink | brixen: but i always ssh in, so i have my normal terminal settings |
| 23:57:48 | brixen | yeah, doesn't work |
| 23:57:53 | brixen | I installed a no-X system |
| 23:58:02 | brixen | drbrain: where is this keyboard icon? |
| 23:58:13 | drbrain | ec |
| 23:58:16 | drbrain | sec |
| 23:58:28 | drbrain | it's also in the menu, somewhere, "send keys" |
| 23:58:44 | brixen | gotcha |
| 23:59:24 | drbrain | I've got a keyboard icon on the bottom left next to the floppy disk and HDD and network icons |
| 23:59:33 | brixen | ahh yep |
| 23:59:50 | brixen | I think I'll do the ssh idea |