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00:08:57evanhuh.
00:09:13evanthe sapphirestelle guys are writing a new ruby-esque language
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00:11:34headiusoh?
00:16:08rueevan: Dan Berger
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00:17:16evanrue: no, a different one
00:17:23evandan forked MRI
00:17:25evanthere is another one
00:17:28evanwith a new syntax
00:17:45headiussapphire in steel is something else
00:17:49evanyeah
00:18:09headiuswhere'd you see this, evan
00:18:17evanrubyinside
00:18:19evanvia rss
00:18:34evanthere is a blog post on sapphiresteel's site now about it
00:18:40rueAh, wtf?
00:18:48rueThose dumbasses
00:19:43headiusI see
00:20:00evanthere are no code examples
00:20:12evanof this new, revised syntax
00:20:27evan"python without tabs" is right
00:20:33evanas one commenter says
00:21:43headiuswtf, who would use that
00:22:14headiuseven better than a language driven by implementers...a language driven by IDE designers
00:23:23tarcieriheh
00:23:34tarcieriWhy would you try to "fix Ruby" without... actually fixing the real problems
00:23:39tarcieriwhich is what you are all addressing :)
00:23:51ruebrixen: I am applying the doc patch
00:24:25rueheadius, evan: I would not be opposed to a simplified Ruby
00:24:44rueI think there is room to shave stuff off without sacrificing usability in any way
00:25:08headiusso you would be interested in a language that isn't ruby?
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00:26:41evanthere are certainly edge cases and such that are so rarely used and complicated things i'd be for ditching them
00:26:50evanproc as a binding being one
00:27:09evani'd love to be able to have a closure actually close!
00:27:30rueheadius: A 'better' Ruby, yeah
00:27:37rueDunno what it would be exactly, of course :)
00:28:09evani don't have a problem with the syntax
00:30:14rueIt is not too bad
00:30:32rueHash and Proc should have different terms is my biggest complaint
00:30:45rueI just want to write foo.map 'blah' { ... }
00:30:56rue*also
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00:33:03rueevan: Hm, I am seeing .d.1234 dependency files. Adding an ignore
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00:48:58boyscout3 commits by Eero Saynatkari
00:48:59boyscout * Big VM documentation patch from Michael Klishin.; 55cbcc6
00:49:00boyscout * Added .d.nnnn dependency files to ignores.; 942dcb9
00:49:01boyscout * Whitespace cleanup in preparation of doc update.; 71aead7
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00:55:11rubuildius_amd64Eero Saynatkari: 55cbcc60f; 1756 files, 6116 examples, 20382 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/7ec59069.html
00:56:50djwhittanyone know what license matzbot is under?
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01:00:49rubuildius_ppcEero Saynatkari: 55cbcc60f; 1756 files, 6119 examples, 20411 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/168548
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01:26:42ruedjwhitt: evn's site says it is based on "public domain code"
01:27:20djwhittrue: ok, thanks
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02:17:10djwhittso... I'm going to add email support to rubuildius and have it post to the google group
02:17:13djwhittonly problem is
02:17:18djwhittyou have to be a member to post
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02:18:22seydarso evan - i took a stab at writing the CRuby thing. things did NOT go as well as planned. so now i'm going to use things i've actually learned in my CS courses. like S-Exps, except more geared towards ANSI C
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02:18:45seydaror maybe i'll try shiving a new backend to RubyToC
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02:23:08djwhittI suppose I can make rubuildius a member though...
02:23:36seydardo that. that sounds like it will work
02:23:58djwhittyeah, just gotta setup a non-google email address for it too
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02:30:34seydarso djwhitt: if you had to design CRuby, how would you do it? A true ruby to C compiler or a DSL for writing C?
02:33:04djwhittwell, how useful would a DSL for writing C really be?
02:33:53djwhittI think if I were doing it I'd probably first try to write something that did basic Ruby to C++
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02:34:20djwhittsince then you'd have the stl for handling strings etc.
02:34:27seydarstl?
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02:34:43djwhitthttp://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/
02:34:51djwhittstandard template library
02:35:02seydarwell i'm looking to write something that could get used in the creation of the core VM
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02:35:11seydarshotgun
02:35:30seydarso i feel that emulating all of Ruby would be pointless
02:35:30djwhittthough, actually I think string might be part of C++ itself
02:35:37seydaralright
02:35:42seydari'll pick your brain later
02:35:45seydarmust..... sleep
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02:35:49djwhittlater
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02:41:28ruedjwhitt: So long as it is mailing from an address that is a member, you are fine
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03:13:42fbuilesv Hi, when trying to build Rubinius I'm getting this error: http://pastie.caboo.se/168586
03:13:43fbuilesvAny pointers?
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03:21:15womblefbuilesv: Rake isn't long on useful error messages for building stuff... you'll need to do a bit of detective work. First, the backtrace says that the last line of user-provided code was /Users/federicobuiles/programacion/rubinius/rakefile:119. What does that line say?
03:21:52fbuilesvwomble: sh make('vm')
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03:23:31fbuilesvmake vm "makes" rubinius which tries to make lib/library before, and there's where the error's thrown
03:23:52fbuilesvactually, no, make library works, it's make rubinius who complains
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03:26:18ruefbuilesv: Can you do rake distclean; rake rebuild ?
03:26:41fbuilesvrue: sure, sec
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03:32:27fbuilesvrue: That fixed it, thanks. Seems weird, this was a clean clone.
03:41:45rueThat is strange! Wonder if there is something extra in the repo
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03:52:23fbuilesvrue: cloned again, no errors this time :S I must have ran something I guess
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03:57:47ruefbuilesv: Cool, least it works :)
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03:58:04fbuilesvrue: Yup, thanks, time to dig in and see how I can help :)
03:58:44rueGlad to hear it :) Is there anything in particular that you are interested in?
03:59:30fbuilesvrue: Not really, I was checking an UDPSocket bug in Lighthouse but if you have any suggestions I'll be glad to help
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04:02:45ruefbuilesv: Naw, we can always use more specs and library code. One thing we have been recommending recently is that you grab a library or an app of your own that you want to run
04:02:51rueThen spec/fix whatever breaks :)
04:03:28anonuserI guess I'll try and fix the UDPSocket stuff tomorrow
04:03:40fbuilesvrue: Mmm ok, I'll take another look at RSpec then since my knowledge at it is pretty basic, then I'll pick up something
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04:09:50rueanonuser: I think I forgot to answer earlier: the packaged Gnome is never more than one behind the source version
04:10:20anonuserrue, hrrm I still like the extra configuration options
04:23:31rueHeh
04:23:52rueGnome and KDE are so ridiculously big that I do not care to compile them myself
04:28:54rueI used to do the Gentoo thing but got tired of it
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05:55:35rueWhoa. Tk is not pretty on OSX
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06:04:20dmpk2krue: which version of Tk?
06:05:59brixenrue: you using gitk?
06:06:50brixenrue: if so, the top of this has some line from evan to make it look better: http://pastie.org/168631
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06:21:13rueEh, I am just going to use tig instead
06:21:19rueI had not bothered to install it
06:21:40brixentig is really nice, I love it
06:22:11brixenyou can do, e.g. tig log -S"find this"
06:22:22brixendiscovered that by accident mistyping git :)
06:23:19rueYep
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06:56:46rueHey, col, agardiner's post made it to DZone
07:00:10TheVoiceyeah I saw that too
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15:52:07Defilerfbuilesv: I ran into that same problem with make 'error 2' the other day, and couldn't figure out how to fix the Makefile to avoid it.
15:52:43fbuilesvDefiler: a distclean + rebuild fixed it, no idea of why it happend though, it was supposed to be a clean copy
15:53:43DefilerYeah. It seems to happen occasionally when something in shotgun is updated
15:54:14DefilerThe makefile rules look correct, though. Deleting librubinius and typing 'rake' again would probably also fix it
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16:01:05fbuilesvweird
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16:12:06fbuilesvI'm trying to write a spec for REXML. The constructor of document receives a context and according to the docs, this context "should be a Hash" but in the MRI implementation it's never checked if it's indeed a hash (since it's never used).
16:12:17fbuilesvShould the rbx spec check that it's indeed a hash?
16:15:16Defilerfbuilesv: Nope. Sounds like a doc bug
16:15:33DefilerPresumably it just expects thing[something] to work
16:16:46fbuilesvDefiler: Ok, thanks.
16:17:29fbuilesvDefiler: Actually, context is never called on the code (the author's not sure what it's used for), he just init's it to {} in the constructor but that's it.
16:18:04fbuilesvI think it's better to leave it with no checks so it doesn't complain about MRI then
16:21:53DefilerYeah. Whatever it does on MRI is 'the spec', except in cases where it is obviously a bug
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16:24:42fbuilesvThen, would someone mind taking a look at http://pastie.org/168753 ? It's my first spec so I'd like to receive some criticism
16:25:07fbuilesvit's stupid simple so far
16:25:50DefilerYou can write: blah.empty?.should == true as: blah.should be_empty
16:26:38DefilerI would also try to simplify this description: "clones source's attributes source if a Document"
16:26:58DefilerAlso, there's no need to do: should_not raise_error
16:27:38DefilerYou can just say: Document.new("Invalid document") and move on, since raising an exception means the spec fails
16:27:51DefilerLooks fine, though, other than those tweaks
16:28:04fbuilesvDefiler: Where's be_empty defined? A quick grep through the rgx tree doesn't find it
16:28:22fbuilesvrbx*
16:29:08Defilermspec/matchers, I would expect
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16:30:27DefilerBug brixen if it doesn't work the way you'd expect. :)
16:30:31fbuilesvDefiler: Nope, either it's not there or I'm failing horribly :)
16:31:24fbuilesvI'm not seeing any spec that uses it either
16:31:53DefilerYeah, looks like for whatever reason it makes you add something similar to mspec/matchers/be_kind_of.rb
16:32:11DefilerI can't keep up with the seemingly-constant changes to mspec. Might just be me
16:32:18DefilerFeel free to add be_empty.rb, though
16:32:50DefilerCoffee time. Back in a bit
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17:14:08rueGood evening
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17:37:18boyscout1 commit by Charles Comstock
17:37:19boyscout * tagged new specs for pathname; 5caf94c
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17:50:02djwhittso, has anyone thought about making the specs run in parallel?
17:50:11rubuildius_amd64Charles Comstock: 5caf94ce6; 1764 files, 6137 examples, 20403 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/PNzq0a97.html
17:50:13djwhittie use N number or processes
17:50:35rubuildius_ppcCharles Comstock: 5caf94ce6; 1764 files, 6140 examples, 20432 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/168777
17:50:56DefilerI've wanted a rake feature like 'make -jN'
17:51:06djwhittyeah, that would be nice
17:51:26djwhittI was just thinking about it because the machine I'm running rubuildius_amd64 on is a dual core
17:51:31djwhittit could probably go a lot faster
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17:53:12dgtizeddjwhitt: I think that's a bad idea, I think it's better to leave a slight slowness in spec testing as incentive to speed up the interpreter
17:53:33dgtizeddjwhitt: MRI runs the specs in a couple seconds, so most of that slowness is our own fault
17:53:53dgtizeddjwhitt: string performance in particular would drastically increase our spec running speed
17:54:05djwhittdgtized: yeah, good point
17:54:25djwhittdgtized: I haven't tried running specs on MRI in ages so I didn't realize there was /that/ much difference
17:55:10dgtizeddjwhitt: yea it's pretty noticeable -- I mean we are definitely getting faster, and we win on specific tests, but general performance is still sluggish in comparison
17:56:04dgtizeddjwhitt: also I don't want to think about problems with running specs in parallel, they can be a pain to write anyway
17:56:22dgtizeddjwhitt: now writing specs to test to see if parallel things are working correctly, that's a different story
17:56:38djwhitt*sigh* I suppose
17:56:39djwhitthehe
17:57:02djwhittI should setup make to run in parallel though
17:57:08fbuilesvI just uploaded some patches on ticket #426 for a be_empty matcher in MSpec in case someone wants to take a look.
17:57:08djwhittno reason to have that part of the build be slow
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18:37:05djwhittactually adding a '-j3' to make options seems to break things right now
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18:52:46dgtizeddjwhitt: yea I'm all for parallelizing make, and also parallelizing the compilation of kernel rbc files
18:53:22dgtizedif -j3 is failing it probably indicates we are not correctly annotatating some of the dependencies
18:53:32djwhittyeah
18:53:55djwhittI'll look into it later, I gotta run pretty soon
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19:24:19Defilerdjwhitt: I know at one time I had all the make tasks running with -j
19:24:33Defilerdjwhitt: Lots of external lib changes recently, though, so it probably broke
19:29:16djwhittDefiler: here's the build log if you want to have a go at fixing it: http://rafb.net/p/Ll3Rxz77.html
19:30:08djwhittDefiler: if not that's no problem I'll look into it later, but I'm about to leave to catch a plane so I probably won't have a chance till tonight or tomorrow
19:31:05DefilerCool. I may look at it if I need a break from banging my face against my other tickets heh
19:32:37djwhittlooks like it's libffi that's having problems
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19:41:28evandjwhitt: you just need to remove all your .d files under shotgun/lib and shotgun/lib/subtend
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20:46:44rueevan: The more I read, the weirder the FSB VM seems
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21:48:34fbuilesvI'm working on a spec for REXML. Turns out that has some bugs that generate incorrect XML and have been opened for at least 4 months, what should the spec reflect here, current MRI behavior or the correct solution?
21:49:29drbraincorrect behavior
21:49:52drbrainalso, send a message to ruby-core about the patches
21:50:40fbuilesvdrbrain: REXML is maintained outside core (by germane-software according to what I'm seeing) but I'm only trying to write the spec right now. As soon as I write some patches I'll send them.
21:50:43fbuilesvty
21:51:36zenspiderfbuilesv: iirc the rexml is fairly active on ruby-core, so it should be a good place to go
21:52:13fbuilesvzenspider: I'll ask there then
21:59:47evanrue: yeah,
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23:32:40rueantares: The patch is in, although you probably caught that
23:33:57rueevan: Bit for antares
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23:35:37antaresrue, actually I did not
23:35:57antaresrue, how do I send pastie with ssh key to Evan?
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23:57:02FoobarWidgethi all
23:58:04FoobarWidgetrue: still need help with apache? :)
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