Show enters and exits. Hide enters and exits.
| 00:00:19 | zenspider | I like that combo |
| 00:00:23 | zenspider | nice |
| 00:01:09 | brixen | man VVSiz is going to kill me |
| 00:01:27 | brixen | oh well, living on the edge |
| 00:01:37 | headius | why |
| 00:01:59 | brixen | headius: I just added the config file support and I'm changing it |
| 00:02:11 | brixen | it was a bitch to spec, but now I can spec the scripts pretty easily |
| 00:02:17 | brixen | oh well, live n' learn |
| 00:02:19 | headius | ahh |
| 00:02:21 | headius | well, moving target |
| 00:02:26 | brixen | yeah |
| 00:04:22 | zenspider | brixen: would you cry if I broke up the symbol/inspect_spec.rb specs into separate entities? |
| 00:05:00 | brixen | zenspider: le'me take a look |
| 00:05:04 | zenspider | I really dislike that the first failure stops the rest from running, so you can't see what else you broke |
| 00:05:36 | trythil leaves the room. | |
| 00:05:36 | brixen | oh, you mean the spec, not the file? |
| 00:05:51 | zenspider | aye |
| 00:06:18 | brixen | eegads, yeah |
| 00:06:38 | brixen | I don't mind *a little* code in specs, as long as it doesn't take 5 min to figure out how the code works ;) |
| 00:07:03 | brixen | I hate looking at specs where I need to write specs to understand the spec generator |
| 00:07:05 | zenspider | would you rather I went with a hash and generated them? |
| 00:07:08 | rue | Hey, it got so far as trying to get hoe before timing out now |
| 00:07:31 | brixen | zenspider: I think you might have trouble generating some. I had to use literals |
| 00:07:46 | brixen | especially for :"\"" |
| 00:07:52 | mkescher_ enters the room. | |
| 00:07:53 | brixen | the others might not be so bad |
| 00:07:56 | zenspider | rue; heh. I gave up and did a gem fetch blah; ./shotgun/rubinius gem install blah-1.0.0.gem |
| 00:08:04 | zenspider | brixen: k. lemme take a whack |
| 00:08:09 | brixen | zenspider: k |
| 00:09:20 | rue | http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary?book=dictionary&va=sensible&x=0&y=0 |
| 00:09:21 | rue | ... 3. (Computer Science) Not pushing 10 000 bytes on the stack when 4 |
| 00:09:23 | rue | would do. |
| 00:09:24 | brixen | zenspider: heh, although, doing the simplest thing that could work kinda means you fix the failures one at a time |
| 00:10:01 | zenspider | brixen: I need to see patterns of failures to be most effective |
| 00:10:22 | brixen | zenspider: yeah, sensible |
| 00:10:32 | d2dchat leaves the room. | |
| 00:10:38 | brixen | oh damn, my eye! |
| 00:10:38 | zenspider | I'm going to stab all of you |
| 00:10:40 | wycats | Defiler: ping |
| 00:10:42 | rue | runs |
| 00:10:52 | jayWHY leaves the room. | |
| 00:11:01 | brixen | rue: all I get is "gild the lily" |
| 00:13:24 | agile leaves the room. | |
| 00:15:39 | JimPeak enters the room. | |
| 00:19:41 | rby leaves the room. | |
| 00:30:03 | drbrain | um, what??? |
| 00:30:09 | drbrain | ruby -e 'p :"~@"' # => :~ |
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| 00:33:38 | headius | that's come up before |
| 00:33:53 | headius | there's special code that normalizes the unary operators to the single-char symbol |
| 00:34:29 | ezmobius | kinda breaks the whole concept of 'symbols' imho |
| 00:34:30 | headius | I argued it should either be what you expect it should be and ruby internals shouldn't use the same symbol mechanism |
| 00:34:46 | headius | or nobody should use symbols |
| 00:36:09 | drbrain | but :"+@" and :"-@" does not exhibit this behavior |
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| 00:37:49 | bricolage enters the room. | |
| 00:40:27 | Fullmoon enters the room. | |
| 00:41:10 | headius | it is a mystery wrapped in an engima |
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| 00:42:24 | rue | drbrain: http://pastie.org/175576 |
| 00:43:24 | rue | I sent patches ;) |
| 00:43:29 | drbrain | but, I don't like that line |
| 00:44:06 | drbrain | that's what the * is for :( |
| 00:47:27 | rue | Fine, but you have the patch if you feel like changing it at some point. |
| 00:47:58 | rue | The non-splat version is about 10x faster at 2500 arguments but the constant is negligible on MatzRuby |
| 00:48:05 | zenspider | brixen: http://rafb.net/p/HNFhiM98.html - I was able to remove a whole when... what do you think? |
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| 00:51:27 | zenspider | rue: stop polishing a turd |
| 00:52:01 | tarcieri | prefers potpourri turd |
| 00:52:43 | zenspider | can someone review my change? http://rafb.net/p/tnCytz37.html |
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| 00:55:10 | drbrain | tarcieri: that'd be a lot of fiber to consume |
| 00:56:56 | tarcieri | heh |
| 01:00:16 | brixen | zenspider: running ci now |
| 01:00:21 | rue | zenspider: It was a 2-minute change. Incidentally, so is the argument count change |
| 01:01:43 | brixen | zenspider: I have a failure: Expected ":\"+\"" to equal ":+" |
| 01:02:17 | zenspider | brixen: huh. I don't |
| 01:02:55 | brixen | zenspider: hmm, did you change the specs? |
| 01:03:20 | brixen | zenspider: also, some extraneous 'then's in there :P |
| 01:03:40 | Fullmoon leaves the room. | |
| 01:08:23 | zenspider | brixen: I optimized the regexps specifically so I could put them in there. |
| 01:08:28 | zenspider | then is sensible. :P |
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| 01:09:17 | zenspider | brixen: um. I don't see :+ anywhere in the spec, old or new |
| 01:09:34 | zenspider | do you have uncommitted modifications? |
| 01:10:00 | zenspider | or am I not running all the necessary specs? |
| 01:10:19 | zenspider | 9 files, 62 examples, 84 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 01:10:46 | zenspider | bbiab |
| 01:12:46 | brixen | zenspider: bin/mspec ci spec/ruby/1.8/language/symbol_spec.rb |
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| 01:25:44 | seydar enters the room. | |
| 01:33:47 | seydar | can someone please explain the details of the rubinius parser and the bytecode generation? |
| 01:33:50 | seydar | mi petas? |
| 01:35:05 | djwhitt | seydar: this might be helpful assuming it's up to date: http://rubini.us/doc/compiler_intro.txt |
| 01:35:48 | rue | ^^ |
| 01:35:56 | rue | Explaining it in detail takes a bit of time |
| 01:36:10 | brixen | and rue has already spent the time |
| 01:36:18 | brixen | seydar: so you can read in detail :) |
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| 01:37:49 | seydar | huzzah |
| 01:37:50 | zenspider | brixen: I'm actually doing: rake && ./bin/mspec ci ./spec/ruby/1.8/core/symbol ... I'll add the language one |
| 01:38:03 | bricolage leaves the room. | |
| 01:39:17 | brixen | zenspider: case probably needs to be added to Symbol#inspect spec |
| 01:41:06 | zenspider | ok. I've got them all passing and still have the extra when removed |
| 01:41:12 | zenspider | I think that is a lot cleaner |
| 01:41:38 | rubbish leaves the room. | |
| 01:42:23 | brixen | yeah, definitely |
| 01:42:38 | seydar | dammit. i'll just rewrite io/wait to FFI |
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| 01:52:13 | rue | brixen: One flaw in our grand plan: some code will expect the #to_a or #to_ary call to happen |
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| 01:56:32 | boyscout | 2 commits by Ryan Davis |
| 01:56:33 | boyscout | * Fixed and optimized Symbol#inspect regexps; 2b7ed75 |
| 01:56:34 | boyscout | * Converted symbol spec to be generative, allowing easier pattern detection; 03e092e |
| 01:59:05 | brixen | rue: well, you could still do that on the arg when *this is passed |
| 01:59:24 | brixen | but on the receiver side, unpack from the array in stead of from the stack |
| 01:59:57 | brixen | but I realize that's a bit more involved |
| 02:00:10 | brixen | which is why I thought we'd wait until eval order machinery is done |
| 02:02:58 | wdperson leaves the room. | |
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| 02:05:34 | rubuildius_amd64 | Ryan Davis: 2b7ed7560; 1850 files, 6369 examples, 22419 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/MVlj7Q95.html |
| 02:08:36 | rubuildius_ppc | Ryan Davis: 2b7ed7560; 1850 files, 6372 examples, 22448 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/175597 |
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| 02:15:41 | seydar | whoawhoawhoawhoawhoa |
| 02:15:56 | seydar | the bytecode in .rbc files is just Marshalled data? |
| 02:18:32 | rue | Not Marshal from the stdlib |
| 02:18:43 | rue | Which reminds me, I will try to rename it today |
| 02:23:47 | VVSiz_ enters the room. | |
| 02:27:27 | seydar | so can you call it... |
| 02:28:02 | rue | No |
| 02:28:13 | seydar | StableKeeper |
| 02:28:32 | rue | I was going to call it No |
| 02:28:36 | seydar | because Marshal is english of the old germanic Marh Scalc, which meant StableKeeper |
| 02:29:16 | seydar | its important to include puns |
| 02:31:19 | rue | Humm |
| 02:31:49 | seydar | class StableKeeper; include Puns; end |
| 02:36:32 | gnufied | do we have something like when number of tickets on lighthouse drops to 0 1.0 preview is ready? |
| 02:36:43 | rue | Like balloons or something? |
| 02:36:48 | gnufied | is just musing! |
| 02:37:01 | gnufied | oh ignore me |
| 02:37:34 | rue | 1.0 pre or 0.95 is characterised by Running Rails(tm) |
| 02:39:26 | seydar | niiiiiiiiiice |
| 02:39:55 | seydar | sera AWESOME |
| 02:41:34 | jlindley enters the room. | |
| 02:41:53 | VVSiz leaves the room. | |
| 02:45:48 | rue | Hrm, the method dispatch side is a bit weird |
| 02:47:08 | seydar | how strange indeed |
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| 02:56:16 | rue | Ah, it is just the docs I think |
| 02:59:31 | headius leaves the room. | |
| 03:02:42 | brixen | hmm, these options are really a pita to spec |
| 03:03:56 | rue | Really? |
| 03:04:40 | brixen | yes |
| 03:04:59 | rue | I need to beat agardiner onna head.. one of these descriptions sent me on a /long/ chase |
| 03:05:15 | brixen | rue: http://pastie.org/175611 |
| 03:05:27 | brixen | I think I've settled on the top approach |
| 03:06:38 | rue | Yep, seems OK. You might be able to automate it a bit |
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| 03:08:12 | brixen | drat, gtg. maybe I can push this later |
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| 03:20:09 | rue | Hm, looks like it might work |
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| 03:44:28 | seydar | ok. so i'm working on io/wait right now |
| 03:44:39 | rue | I am io/waiting |
| 03:44:52 | rue | Which library is that? |
| 03:45:01 | seydar | what exactly is an OpenFile type? and do I need to include <rubyio.h>? |
| 03:45:05 | seydar | its io/wait.rb |
| 03:45:11 | seydar | well, thats a lie |
| 03:45:12 | seydar | io/wait.c |
| 03:45:27 | seydar | stdlib/ext/io/wait/lib |
| 03:45:36 | seydar | err, scratch that lib |
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| 03:49:57 | rue | OpenFile is how MatzRuby handles files |
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| 03:50:49 | seydar | k |
| 03:50:55 | seydar | how do i deal with that in rubinius? |
| 03:51:02 | seydar | wait.... i'm dumb |
| 03:51:03 | seydar | nevermind |
| 03:51:07 | seydar | File.new |
| 03:52:14 | dysinger enters the room. | |
| 03:53:06 | wycats leaves the room. | |
| 03:53:09 | seydar | but how do i deal with #include <rubyio.h> ? |
| 03:54:07 | rue | Need to generate the header and the appropriate methods if you are trying to run it under subtend |
| 03:54:38 | boyscout | 4 commits by Eero Saynatkari |
| 03:54:39 | boyscout | * Clarified wording in opcode documentation for make_rest[_fp].; 374e29e |
| 03:54:40 | boyscout | * Improved the *rest argument count spec a bit.; 2a1d0ad |
| 03:54:41 | boyscout | * Removed 1024 maximum argument count from *rest. Revert if it breaks stuff.; dc76676 |
| 03:54:42 | boyscout | * Specs for unlimited argument count for *rest defns.; e8053e4 |
| 03:54:45 | rue | This should be interesting |
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| 03:59:23 | seydar | i'm trying to get it to run under FFI. what should i do to compensate? |
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| 04:02:13 | rue | FFI would be for really just doing small pieces; if it requires a lot of infrastructure in C it is better through subtend or a Rubinius extension |
| 04:04:16 | seydar | the C is only like 100 lines total |
| 04:05:35 | rubuildius_amd64 | Eero Saynatkari: 374e29e86; 1850 files, 6370 examples, 22426 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/A5dA8S42.html |
| 04:06:02 | rubuildius_ppc | Eero Saynatkari: 374e29e86; 1850 files, 6373 examples, 22455 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/175625 |
| 04:06:35 | rue | Huh, it worked |
| 04:06:40 | rue | zenspider: ^^ |
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| 04:17:51 | seydar | grasdkfjh in io/wait.c, it uses a ruby method, rb_w32_is_socket(). Is there any way to get the equivalent of this? |
| 04:20:04 | drbrain | look in missing/ in 1.8 |
| 04:20:32 | seydar | where's 1.8? |
| 04:20:45 | drbrain | 1.8.6 sources |
| 04:20:49 | drbrain | MRI |
| 04:21:24 | seydar | ahh |
| 04:21:27 | seydar | not fun |
| 04:21:36 | drbrain | grep! |
| 04:21:50 | seydar | but then i have to dl the sources |
| 04:21:58 | seydar | and then i have to type things |
| 04:22:13 | seydar | and there are just too many chances for things to go wrong |
| 04:22:50 | drbrain | lies |
| 04:23:06 | seydar | alright alright |
| 04:23:09 | seydar | i'm on it |
| 04:23:16 | seydar | BUT you have to do me a quick favor |
| 04:23:33 | seydar | can you whip up an example of actual concurrency with actors please? or join calc? |
| 04:23:42 | seydar | and you have to answer this other question |
| 04:23:49 | drbrain | no |
| 04:23:53 | seydar | are rubinius's threads concurrent? |
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| 04:24:04 | drbrain | I'm playing XCOM, the fate of the world is in my hands! |
| 04:24:13 | drbrain | they aren't |
| 04:24:25 | seydar | FOCUS!!! because the actor implementation is based off of them,, thus the actors aren't concurrent |
| 04:24:33 | seydar | my life is shaking right now because of this new fact |
| 04:24:36 | seydar | me cry |
| 04:24:40 | seydar | cries |
| 04:24:44 | drbrain | seydar: why do you hate the Earth? |
| 04:24:51 | drbrain | seydar: Do you want the aliens to win? |
| 04:24:53 | seydar | did i mess you up? |
| 04:25:10 | drbrain | no |
| 04:25:22 | seydar | i hate the earth because my new french teacher hates life, people being right, and extra courses that make me miss a bit of french every now and then |
| 04:25:27 | drbrain | I am joking |
| 04:25:36 | seydar | and because comcast is throttling everything i do |
| 04:25:53 | seydar | 50k/sec on a 3mbit connection? something is FUNKY |
| 04:25:53 | drbrain | ha! first platoon decided to start in a pit |
| 04:26:01 | seydar | ha. ha. |
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| 04:27:50 | seydar | grep is failing me! |
| 04:27:55 | seydar | Doctor, we need to operate! |
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| 04:28:43 | drbrain | grep -r rb_w32_is_socket . |
| 04:29:01 | seydar | well |
| 04:29:09 | seydar | ahem... let me check again |
| 04:29:16 | djwhitt | drbrain: XCOM is awesome. which one are you playing? |
| 04:29:30 | drbrain | djwhitt: 3, via dosbox |
| 04:29:33 | drbrain | w/o sound |
| 04:29:39 | drbrain | it fails to run on XP |
| 04:29:56 | djwhitt | never played 3, but I'm downloading it right now |
| 04:30:34 | drbrain | as I recall, people were unhappy with it do to changes in the turn-based combat |
| 04:30:40 | drbrain | it also has a real-time mode |
| 04:30:44 | djwhitt | oh yeah? |
| 04:30:45 | djwhitt | interesting |
| 04:30:45 | drbrain | which is enjoyable |
| 04:31:15 | djwhitt | yeah, I remember it reading that it was quite a departure from the first two |
| 04:31:17 | seydar | C is so ugly 99% of the time |
| 04:32:17 | seydar | and what exactly does ((fd),Qtrue) mean? |
| 04:33:20 | drbrain | seydar: what's the rest of the line? |
| 04:33:37 | seydar | #define FIONREAD_POSSIBLE_P(fd) ((fd),Qtrue) |
| 04:33:56 | drbrain | it's macro replacement |
| 04:34:26 | drbrain | so, replace FIONREAD_POSSIBLE_P(arg) with ((arg),Qtrue) |
| 04:34:42 | drbrain | the (arg) is in case arg is an expression that needs expansion |
| 04:35:49 | seydar | so how would I write that ((arg), Qtrue) in ruby? |
| 04:36:03 | drbrain | I think this macro says "yes, we can read" if it's not windows |
| 04:36:17 | drbrain | oh, no |
| 04:36:34 | drbrain | I think it's just "do we have a valid file descriptor" |
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| 04:40:27 | rue | Nasty macro. |
| 04:41:39 | seydar | so.... ruby equivalent? |
| 04:42:12 | drbrain | if descriptor then |
| 04:42:58 | seydar | ah |
| 04:43:10 | seydar | the descriptor is just an IO object, right? |
| 04:43:40 | drbrain | no, it's a number |
| 04:43:47 | drbrain | so, I guess if descriptor != 0 |
| 04:43:54 | drbrain | IO#descriptor |
| 04:44:16 | seydar | ok. IO#ready? gets passed an IO object, right? |
| 04:44:50 | drbrain | in C extensions, the first argument is usually self |
| 04:45:19 | seydar | gooooootcha |
| 04:45:24 | seydar | in THAT case.... |
| 04:46:55 | seydar | drbrain: problem with that is that #ready? is a class method |
| 04:47:03 | seydar | module method* |
| 04:47:14 | drbrain | where? |
| 04:47:30 | drbrain | I see rb_define_method, which should make an instance method |
| 04:47:51 | seydar | actually, i'm just being dumb again. i always thought it was module method |
| 04:48:06 | drbrain | IO.instance_methods(false).grep(/ready|wait/) |
| 04:48:45 | seydar | k |
| 04:48:48 | seydar | you're right |
| 04:48:57 | seydar | crap man, io/wait is harder than I thought |
| 04:49:53 | seydar | i'll deal with it later |
| 04:49:57 | seydar | porpoise needs a swim |
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| 07:05:41 | rue | Meh |
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| 08:22:39 | boyscout | 1 commit by Eero Saynatkari |
| 08:22:40 | boyscout | * Added excludes for the CGI specs.; 22f3042 |
| 08:22:46 | rue | Big changeset |
| 08:23:10 | rue | I am not sure whether adding everything with mkspec is a great idea although I suppose they get added later anyway |
| 08:28:36 | headius | CGI specs |
| 08:28:39 | headius | yikes |
| 08:30:40 | rubuildius_amd64 | Eero Saynatkari: 22f304237; 1955 files, 6387 examples, 22451 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/jmQtoq15.html |
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| 08:34:37 | rubuildius_ppc | Eero Saynatkari: 22f304237; 1955 files, 6390 examples, 22480 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/175663 |
| 08:34:50 | headius | ugh |
| 08:34:54 | headius | what's the point of adding specs that just error |
| 08:35:07 | headius | that's really gross |
| 08:35:15 | rue | Yeah, there are 25 or so actual ones and 100 defaults |
| 08:36:14 | headius | I don't see the benefit at all, especially since you have to tag them, and that masks new *real* failures or successes as the specs are filled out |
| 08:36:41 | rue | Typically I regenerate tags after any changes to lib or kernel |
| 08:36:53 | headius | I can't run this against MRI, which means it's a broken spec |
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| 08:37:17 | rue | bin/mspec -G fails spec |
| 08:37:20 | headius | a spec you can't successfully run against anything isn't particularly useful |
| 08:38:01 | headius | regenerating tags too often also can mask regressions |
| 08:38:13 | rue | Er, -G there standing for "exclude 'fails'", not "generate" |
| 08:38:38 | headius | we're not maintaining a set of tags for MRI, are we? |
| 08:38:52 | headius | my understanding has always been that the specs should run green on MRI without tags |
| 08:38:54 | headius | and this one does not |
| 08:38:57 | headius | so it's broken |
| 08:38:59 | rue | Well you DO have to actually review the changes in tag files :P |
| 08:39:55 | headius | I know this discussion has come up before and it was agreed that adding always-failing specs was a bad idea |
| 08:40:04 | headius | since there's no impl against which they'll pass |
| 08:43:32 | rue | I dunno if that changed at some point; the default produced by mkspec was changed some time ago |
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| 08:54:35 | headius | well, it's wrong |
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| 09:01:33 | rue | Man, the debugger is cool. |
| 09:02:20 | rue | headius: Mm, it does require a bit of management in that respect |
| 09:02:30 | headius | I'm going to post to the list |
| 09:02:36 | headius | it's so wrong it makes me furious |
| 09:02:59 | headius | writing specs that always fail...there's no way to argue that's correct |
| 09:04:24 | headius | sent |
| 09:10:04 | rue | It depends on the definition of correctness :) |
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| 09:23:18 | rue | dbussink: Morning ;) |
| 09:23:59 | rue | Taking an early leave tonight.. it is not even 5 yet! I feel like a senior citizen |
| 09:24:05 | rue | *wave |
| 09:24:12 | dbussink | rue: hehe, night night |
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| 09:43:23 | VVSiz | hey, failing specs by default is really not good. I saw the commit a few days ago that adds this functionality to mkspec and was worrying, and now I can definitely say -- it's too much trouble |
| 09:52:46 | dbussink | i think we really need something like pending |
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| 09:56:32 | boyscout | 1 commit by Eero Saynatkari |
| 09:56:33 | rue | Let me know when you figure it out. |
| 09:56:33 | boyscout | * Partially revert "Add spec files for cgi.rb."; 5a20520 |
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| 10:05:46 | rubuildius_amd64 | Eero Saynatkari: 5a205207f; 1855 files, 6387 examples, 22451 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/ykW95546.html |
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| 10:11:10 | rubuildius_ppc | Eero Saynatkari: 5a205207f; 1855 files, 6390 examples, 22480 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/175677 |
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| 10:27:17 | VVSiz | rue: thanks |
| 10:28:01 | VVSiz | dbussink: yeah, maybe something in the new spec files that not fails by default, but could fail if proper switch specified (--run-pending or some such) |
| 10:28:18 | dbussink | VVSiz: yeah, like headius' mail on rubinius-dev |
| 10:29:13 | VVSiz | hmm, can you tell me where the list is? :) |
| 10:30:53 | dbussink | it's on google groups |
| 10:31:08 | dbussink | VVSiz: http://groups.google.com/group/rubinius-dev/browse_thread/thread/18294d50698dae2a?hl=en |
| 10:31:25 | VVSiz | thanks, I'll subscribe then :) |
| 10:34:42 | dbussink | VVSiz: looks like you jruby people have a hive mind, because headius' suggestion is exactly the same (the last line of his mail) |
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| 10:53:22 | NoKarma | heya all |
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| 10:57:10 | dbussink | g'day |
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| 13:40:16 | davividal enters the room. | |
| 13:41:11 | davividal | good morning.have anyone successfully installed Rubinius on Win 2k? sorry my poor English. |
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| 13:45:56 | dbussink | davividal: we don't support windows yet |
| 13:46:14 | dbussink | davividal: if you have any windows developing experience, please feel welcome to work on it |
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| 13:49:37 | davividal | dbussink: thank you very much, but I don't meet the requirements... :-( I need to study a bit before being an developer... :-) |
| 13:49:48 | davividal | dbussink: have a nice day |
| 13:50:07 | dbussink | davividal: no problem, we're here for questions ;_ |
| 13:50:08 | dbussink | ;) |
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| 15:18:28 | rubuildius_ppc | Eero Saynatkari: 5a205207f; 1855 files, 6390 examples, 22480 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/175732 |
| 15:19:14 | evan | rue: you around? |
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| 15:56:33 | dbussink | evan: hey, how's the holiday? |
| 15:56:39 | evan | good! |
| 15:56:43 | evan | ready to be home. |
| 15:57:00 | dbussink | ah, you we're flying tomorrow? |
| 15:57:18 | evan | back to the land where my income is adjusted for the nations economic status (unlike denmark and norway) |
| 15:57:37 | evan | yeah, head home tomorrow morning |
| 15:57:44 | evan | hopefully no cancelled flights |
| 15:58:12 | dbussink | just be sure not to go through the new heathrow terminal :P |
| 15:58:33 | dbussink | but i guess it was really expensive with the current exchange rate |
| 15:58:45 | dbussink | norway is expensive, even for all other europeans |
| 15:59:22 | evan | we are |
| 15:59:27 | evan | we didn't have bags the whole trip |
| 15:59:35 | evan | and ba still doesn't know where they are |
| 15:59:47 | evan | i expect them to arrive in LA in a few weeks honestly |
| 16:00:13 | dbussink | damn, and the way back also through there? |
| 16:00:14 | evan | we flew threw terminal 5 the 2nd day it was open :/ |
| 16:00:28 | evan | yep. |
| 16:00:42 | evan | norway to copenhagen, copenhagen to heathrow, heathrow to la |
| 16:01:06 | dbussink | glad i'm having a direct flight to portland from amsterdam :P |
| 16:01:23 | evan | yeah, heathrow typically has been fine for me |
| 16:01:28 | evan | and i usually like british airways |
| 16:01:28 | dbussink | a friend of mine knows a guy who works for the company that built the conveyer systems there |
| 16:01:34 | evan | i'm a bit sour on them now :P |
| 16:01:48 | FoobarWidget | going to railsconf? :) |
| 16:01:56 | dbussink | well, amsterdam has a high satisfaction usually :P |
| 16:02:01 | dbussink | FoobarWidget: yeah |
| 16:02:09 | FoobarWidget | <--- from .nl too |
| 16:02:18 | dbussink | FoobarWidget: ah, going too |
| 16:02:18 | dbussink | ? |
| 16:02:21 | FoobarWidget | yeah |
| 16:02:24 | evan | yeah, i've flown into skipol (sp) many times |
| 16:02:25 | dbussink | FoobarWidget: where are you based? |
| 16:02:29 | FoobarWidget | apeldoorn |
| 16:02:41 | FoobarWidget | unfortunately we haven't been able to obtain a full speaker slot :( |
| 16:02:45 | dbussink | evan: i'll forgive you the spelling ;) |
| 16:02:47 | FoobarWidget | so we have to settle for a lightning talk for now |
| 16:02:55 | evan | danke |
| 16:03:00 | dbussink | FoobarWidget: ah, what are you going to talk about? |
| 16:03:04 | dbussink | evan: and that one too :P |
| 16:03:08 | evan | hehe |
| 16:03:33 | evan | just don't ask me to spell any norwegian |
| 16:03:46 | dbussink | hehe |
| 16:03:46 | FoobarWidget | dbussink: Phusion Passenger, a.k.a. mod_rails for Apache |
| 16:04:02 | dbussink | reading scandinavian is doable, but i can't make anything out of the pronounciation |
| 16:04:06 | FoobarWidget | and our modified copy-on-write friendly Ruby interpreter |
| 16:04:10 | dbussink | FoobarWidget: ah cool, heard about that |
| 16:06:23 | dbussink | but i really have to go |
| 16:06:34 | dbussink | or a friend of mine is going to complain again that i'm late :P |
| 16:07:09 | FoobarWidget | bye |
| 16:07:22 | dbussink | evan: good luck with your flight! |
| 16:07:28 | dbussink | bye |
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| 18:49:24 | den1jay | Hi guys |
| 18:49:53 | den1jay | i just updated myself what's been happening here from history |
| 18:50:28 | den1jay | drbrain: sorry, i had to leave last night as i was tired and wanted to get some sleep |
| 18:51:33 | den1jay | i have a question ... everytime there's a push to source code ... and after git pull ... i need to run both 'rake build' and 'sudo rake install' right? |
| 18:51:53 | den1jay | or will 'sudo rake install' do? |
| 18:52:48 | VVSiz | hmmm, I don't do install at all, I just use what was compiled |
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| 18:53:15 | den1jay | vvsiz: so just do git pull ... and that's it? |
| 18:53:40 | VVSiz | if you get new changes, then 'rake' afterwards. |
| 18:54:01 | VVSiz | sometimes, I have to do rake clean && rake, if some low-level stuff was updated |
| 18:54:10 | den1jay | ok |
| 18:54:37 | den1jay | you mean to say there's no need to build and install each time i update my code checkout of rubinius .. right? |
| 18:54:56 | den1jay | just do rake .. and everything is in shape ... right |
| 18:55:21 | den1jay | how will i know if anything low level is changed or not ... |
| 18:55:23 | den1jay | ? |
| 18:55:29 | VVSiz | well, you have to build, invoking 'rake'. |
| 18:55:31 | VVSiz | you'll know :) |
| 18:55:52 | VVSiz | you rubinius crashes or behaves weird or produces strange errors :) |
| 18:56:01 | den1jay | but doesn't running will just do everything ... like both build and install |
| 18:56:05 | den1jay | ok |
| 18:56:28 | VVSiz | I'm not sure about install, I never use it. |
| 18:56:43 | den1jay | ok |
| 18:57:07 | VVSiz | so, typically, I do git pull, then rake. Sometimes, once per 2-3 days or after big pull, I do rake clean && rake. |
| 18:57:17 | den1jay | but isn't install important to run because it complies rbx files to executables? |
| 18:57:37 | VVSiz | full clean before build is typically the safest way to get the good version of rubinius, but the downside is that it takes much more time than just rake, without cleaning first. |
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| 18:57:51 | den1jay | ok |
| 18:58:31 | den1jay | i'll just follow rake clean, rake build and then rake install ... after each update .. just to be safe |
| 18:59:03 | den1jay | thanks vvsiz |
| 18:59:08 | VVSiz | I just use shotgun/rubinius , and no install. But you might prefer doing install. If so, you should do that every time after build. |
| 18:59:08 | den1jay | :) |
| 18:59:12 | VVSiz | sure |
| 18:59:47 | den1jay | yeah install just put some binaries or shared libs for binaries in my usr/local folder |
| 18:59:50 | den1jay | i suppose |
| 18:59:57 | VVSiz | yeah. |
| 19:00:18 | VVSiz | again, typically, you should build as yourself, and install via sudo. |
| 19:00:25 | den1jay | but using rbx is cool rather than shotgun/rubinius ... because eventually user's gonna use rbx not shotgun/rubinius |
| 19:00:34 | VVSiz | sure |
| 19:00:41 | den1jay | col |
| 19:00:43 | den1jay | cool |
| 19:00:59 | VVSiz | some time ago the install was broken so I got the habit to never install. As far as I know, now install is OK. |
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| 19:04:00 | den1jay | alright, i just tried 'shotgun/rubinius gem env home' and it works like a charm ... http://pastie.org/175811 |
| 19:04:53 | peeja enters the room. | |
| 19:04:59 | den1jay | also 'shotgun/rubinius gem env' |
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| 19:08:27 | den1jay | drbrain: i just watched your video on infoq re rubygems .. it's cool :) ... and thanks for looking into my questions I asked last night ... |
| 19:08:37 | den1jay | brixen: thanks for your help mate .. |
| 19:08:41 | den1jay | nightz .. bye |
| 19:08:54 | den1jay | vvsiz: catch you tomorrow |
| 19:09:04 | VVSiz | sure :) |
| 19:09:19 | den1jay | :) |
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| 19:41:56 | VVSiz | evan: hmm, it seems new flight cancellations today in Heathrow again |
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| 19:43:19 | VVSiz | "British Airways cancelled 24 flights to and from Terminal 5 on Saturday due to the latest baggage problems." |
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| 20:04:16 | seydar | rue: i seek to pick your brain for a moment |
| 20:06:02 | seydar | actually, this is a question i guess for everyone |
| 20:06:12 | seydar | shotgun takes the marshalled data on disk |
| 20:06:16 | seydar | demarshalls it |
| 20:06:27 | seydar | and then interprets the bytecode |
| 20:07:40 | seydar | is that how it works? |
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| 20:09:44 | seydar | oh crap. its lunchtime in PCT |
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| 20:13:50 | djwhitt | seydar: rue is in EST |
| 20:14:00 | seydar | huzzah rue! |
| 20:14:19 | djwhitt | seydar: of course, that doesn't mean he's on his computer... |
| 20:14:30 | seydar | ok djwhitt, i have another question. the actor model is SUPPOSED to be based off of threads? |
| 20:14:42 | seydar | doesn't that mean /no/ concurrency? |
| 20:15:25 | djwhitt | I don't know /that/ much about it... |
| 20:15:47 | djwhitt | but I imagine that the answer is no... sort of |
| 20:16:01 | seydar | how does rubinius do threads? I assume not greenly |
| 20:16:14 | djwhitt | yes |
| 20:16:30 | seydar | then how? |
| 20:16:39 | djwhitt | same way it works in MRI |
| 20:16:50 | djwhitt | you can still to other stuff while waiting for IO |
| 20:17:25 | djwhitt | but you'll never actually get two threads running at the same time in the same VM (I think) |
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| 20:19:59 | seydar | how do the channels work in rubinius? actually concurrently? |
| 20:20:16 | djwhitt | not sure |
| 20:20:29 | djwhitt | my understanding is that there is nothing concurrent in the VM right now |
| 20:20:34 | seydar | but it will come? |
| 20:20:53 | djwhitt | concurrent in this case meaning seperate threads on separate CPUs |
| 20:21:10 | djwhitt | I believe there is a scheduler in the VM so things will /look/ concurrent |
| 20:21:13 | djwhitt | just like they do in MRI |
| 20:21:35 | djwhitt | but I don't really know how channels etc. work |
| 20:21:42 | djwhitt | I haven't dug into that stuff yet |
| 20:21:42 | seydar | ok. |
| 20:22:04 | djwhitt | did that clarify anything for you? |
| 20:22:10 | seydar | it does! |
| 20:22:13 | seydar | so what has been done to make rubinius run faster? |
| 20:22:18 | seydar | i'm asking this from a learning aspect |
| 20:22:35 | djwhitt | hmm... you mean since the project began? or recently? |
| 20:22:44 | seydar | recently |
| 20:22:58 | seydar | because it all of a sudden started beating MRI in a bunch more things |
| 20:23:20 | djwhitt | hmm... I know that lookuptable sped up some stuff |
| 20:23:33 | djwhitt | brixen's recent string optimizations helped a lot too |
| 20:23:50 | djwhitt | I think that mostly just involved optimizing the Ruby code |
| 20:24:41 | seydar | but shotgun can't be optimized too much more? |
| 20:25:27 | seydar | it is my dream to link rubinius with llvm, and then call it rifle |
| 20:27:16 | djwhitt | shotgun can be optimized a lot more |
| 20:27:25 | djwhitt | there is no inligning at all happening right now |
| 20:27:31 | djwhitt | that would speed things up quite a bit |
| 20:27:34 | seydar | whats inlining? |
| 20:27:56 | djwhitt | if you have a method that's called a lot |
| 20:28:03 | djwhitt | instead of doing a send |
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| 20:28:19 | djwhitt | you just pull the method body into the methods that are calling it a lot |
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| 20:28:37 | djwhitt | at least I'm pretty sure that's what it is |
| 20:28:42 | djwhitt | a lot of this stuff is pretty new to me too :) |
| 20:28:55 | seydar | wait, is send available in C? |
| 20:29:10 | seydar | but I get what you're saying |
| 20:29:18 | djwhitt | you mean is 'send' something you'd be doing in C app? |
| 20:29:26 | seydar | yea |
| 20:29:31 | djwhitt | no |
| 20:29:34 | seydar | you said send, and it threw me for a loop |
| 20:29:42 | seydar | until i just kept reading and it made sense |
| 20:29:44 | djwhitt | 'send' = sending a message in OO |
| 20:30:07 | djwhitt | a.something |
| 20:30:07 | seydar | gotcha |
| 20:30:15 | djwhitt | is sending the message something to a |
| 20:30:40 | seydar | i read allen Kay's email exchange describing how he would've emphasized message passing over classes if he could redo it |
| 20:31:02 | djwhitt | another opt that could be done is context threading |
| 20:31:20 | seydar | whats that? |
| 20:32:19 | djwhitt | that adds call and return instructions to the bytecode... bodies? functions?... not sure what to call them |
| 20:32:38 | djwhitt | which helps modern CPUs do branch prediction |
| 20:32:56 | seydar | shouldn't shotgun be the one doing branch prediction? |
| 20:33:01 | djwhitt | no |
| 20:33:30 | seydar | clearly i have been reading things way wrong, or out of context |
| 20:34:14 | seydar | why would the CPU do it as opposed to shotgun? |
| 20:34:37 | djwhitt | because shotgun can't actually execute anything in parallel... hmm... maybe that's not the best way to say it |
| 20:34:49 | djwhitt | CPUs do branch prediction to keep the pipeline full |
| 20:35:42 | seydar | k |
| 20:35:52 | seydar | will shotgun _ever_ be able to do things in parallel? |
| 20:36:16 | djwhitt | yeah, parallel was a bad choice of words above |
| 20:36:27 | djwhitt | that's really not talking about parallel in the threading sence |
| 20:36:37 | djwhitt | but yeah, I think there are plans to implement native threads in shotgun |
| 20:36:44 | djwhitt | but not for 1.0 as far as I know |
| 20:37:12 | djwhitt | I think right now you might be able to fire up a VM per-thread and get some parallelism that way |
| 20:37:18 | djwhitt | but I'm not sure about that |
| 20:37:44 | seydar | hm |
| 20:39:00 | seydar | ok. i am coming to terms with this and its making sens |
| 20:39:01 | seydar | sense* |
| 20:39:22 | seydar | do you know exactly *where* the bytecode is produced? |
| 20:39:35 | djwhitt | conceptually I do :) |
| 20:39:41 | djwhitt | it's produced by the compiler |
| 20:39:47 | djwhitt | but where that is in the code... |
| 20:39:48 | djwhitt | no idea |
| 20:40:27 | seydar | i see the compiler |
| 20:40:34 | seydar | but not where the bytecode is produced |
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| 20:42:11 | djwhitt | well, bytecode.rb looks like it handles generation |
| 20:42:18 | djwhitt | not sure where stuff in there is called though |
| 20:42:30 | seydar | exactly |
| 20:42:57 | rubuildius_ppc | Eero Saynatkari: 5a205207f; 1855 files, 6390 examples, 22480 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors; http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/175843 |
| 20:43:20 | seydar | ooh! maybe all the method calls there are preeetty much the bytecode |
| 20:44:21 | djwhitt | in bytecode.rb ? |
| 20:45:14 | djwhitt | yeah, all the g.xx stuff is generating bytecode I think |
| 20:46:33 | djwhitt | I'm just not sure where stuff like OpAssign2 etc are called from |
| 20:46:44 | seydar | is there some preferred way to go about adding a new backend to rubinius? as in taking advantage of the parser but not shotgun? |
| 20:46:47 | djwhitt | I imagine there's a loop somewhere that walks the tree and calls those methods for each element in it |
| 20:47:20 | seydar | probably. |
| 20:47:27 | djwhitt | you mean generating something other that bytecode for shotgun to read? |
| 20:47:31 | djwhitt | *than |
| 20:48:00 | seydar | yea |
| 20:48:07 | seydar | although shotgun wouldn't read it, obviously |
| 20:48:58 | djwhitt | well, I would think you could just replace the functions that generate the bytecode in order to get the output you want |
| 20:49:03 | djwhitt | as far as running it... |
| 20:49:10 | djwhitt | that's going to be a bit more difficult |
| 20:49:28 | seydar | maybe i'll just use jruby's parser |
| 20:49:42 | djwhitt | Rubinius's parser basically is JRuby's parser |
| 20:49:50 | djwhitt | they came from the same code at one point I think |
| 20:50:04 | seydar | really? |
| 20:50:29 | seydar | when i looked at Duby's source, it seemed a lot simpler than replacing all of bytecode.rb and node.rb |
| 20:51:21 | djwhitt | or... hmm... maybe that's the new one zenspider is working ... (port from JRuby I mean) |
| 20:51:27 | djwhitt | not sure about that really |
| 20:51:55 | seydar | are you familiar with C? |
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| 20:52:00 | seydar | thats probably a dumb question |
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| 20:52:36 | djwhitt | yes |
| 20:53:13 | djwhitt | not a dumb question |
| 20:53:23 | djwhitt | there are plenty of people who know Ruby who don't know C |
| 20:53:37 | seydar | but who hang out in rubinius? (besides me) |
| 20:53:39 | seydar | anyways |
| 20:53:54 | seydar | do you want to help me get llvm bindings for rubinius? |
| 20:54:31 | djwhitt | I personally don't have a ton of interest in it, but if there are questions I can answer I'll help that way |
| 20:54:58 | seydar | ok. just making sure i can bug you if i need to |
| 20:55:01 | seydar | :-) |
| 21:01:34 | djwhitt | yeah, feel free |
| 21:03:35 | seydar | what would be the advantage to writing the C backend in like haskell or ocaml? not that i'm going to, but i'm just thinking |