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| 00:34:37 | cout | how can I identify programmatically whether I'm running on rubinius? |
| 00:34:59 | seydar | ooh ooh call me |
| 00:35:02 | seydar | RUBY_PLATFORM |
| 00:35:05 | tmornini enters the room. | |
| 00:35:29 | seydar | wait i lied |
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| 00:37:05 | tmornini | I just compiled with llvm-gcc-4.2 installed by iphone dev kit beta 6. |
| 00:37:09 | tmornini | No speed benefit, perhaps slightly slower than gcc. |
| 00:37:13 | tmornini | This is as expected |
| 00:37:27 | tarcieri | RUBY_ENGINE |
| 00:37:31 | tarcieri | == "rbx" |
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| 00:38:01 | seydar | tmornini: wouldn't the speed decrease be the CPU, not the compiler? |
| 00:38:12 | tmornini | ? |
| 00:38:23 | seydar | IRC, llvm is the equivalent of compiling gcc with O2 |
| 00:38:30 | seydar | so i've read... |
| 00:38:43 | tmornini | I had discussed with Evan, Wilson, and Brian that this would be an interesting test. |
| 00:38:46 | seydar | s/be the CPU/be because of the CPU |
| 00:39:00 | tmornini | With absolutely *zero* relevance to using LLVM for native code generation. |
| 00:39:18 | tmornini | gcc-llvm is gcc with LLVM code generator |
| 00:39:33 | tmornini | So it's not running on LLVM cpu, so to speak. |
| 00:40:13 | seydar | tmornini: yea, but isn't the code generator slightly better (without gcc optimizations)? |
| 00:40:42 | tmornini | gcc-llvm is potentially able to generate better code |
| 00:40:49 | tmornini | Looks like it's not so in this case. |
| 00:40:56 | seydar | hm. ho ve |
| 00:41:15 | seydar | headius: ping |
| 00:42:21 | tarcieri | Hmm, are people using "rbx" as a gem platform already? |
| 00:42:56 | tarcieri | For gems that will only work on Rubinius |
| 00:43:15 | tmornini | seydar: This is an *entirely* different LLVM use case than what Evan has planned for new VM. |
| 00:43:26 | cout | tarcieri: thanks |
| 00:44:55 | seydar | tmornini: yea, i totally understand |
| 00:45:37 | seydar | i just assumed that it would have better asm generation on the iPhone |
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| 00:48:27 | seydar | different question: whats wrong with using the rawline gem, which is readline in ruby? |
| 00:52:03 | seydar | I'm looking at it now, and its better than the guy's inline gem (his first version). cleaner code, which was evan's main problem |
| 00:56:28 | seydar | fades for din-din |
| 00:56:30 | tmornini | seydar: No clue. :-) |
| 00:57:11 | seydar | tmornini: ok..... so will i be hated if i include it and then push the changes? i wont toss the old readline, and i'll make changes for compatibility |
| 00:57:33 | seydar | actually i'll just do it and see how much of me is left, |
| 00:57:43 | tmornini | The Rubinius project does not hate. :-) |
| 00:57:57 | tmornini | And, it's *really* easy to reverse a commit. :-) |
| 00:58:07 | seydar | evan potentially hates when he crushed my hopes and dream by saying you can't do pipelining above hardware |
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| 00:58:14 | seydar | ok |
| 00:58:20 | seydar | i'll push it in like an hour |
| 00:58:26 | cout | pipelining? |
| 00:58:26 | seydar | and then start praying |
| 00:58:39 | seydar | cout: hardware stuff |
| 00:58:44 | seydar | dont have time to explain now |
| 00:59:06 | seydar | btw, tmornini i said that i hated hardware last time we met. i lied. I LOVE hardware. it just took some time for me to realize it |
| 00:59:15 | seydar | fades for din-din, legit |
| 00:59:18 | tmornini | seydar: :-) |
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| 01:00:26 | cout | seydar: I know what it is on a cpu, I just didn't see how it related to rubinius |
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| 01:08:42 | seydar | cout: a virtual machine, in my mind, should be designed like a cpu. thus using pipelining and superscaling and cool stuff |
| 01:08:52 | jtoy enters the room. | |
| 01:09:04 | seydar | and since rubinius is being rewritten currently, AND its going to be rewritten again once Garnet gets made.... |
| 01:12:43 | cout | seydar: do you know of any VMs that are built that way? it seems like the only way to make that work is to use threads, and the inter-thread communication would be expensive |
| 01:16:56 | seydar | cout: i dont. i just finished my hardware course (which kicked ASS) on friday |
| 01:17:16 | seydar | and i just figured that one could do a VM like that |
| 01:19:37 | cout | it's an interesting idea. I'd like to see someone try it with something lisimple like maybe a scheme interpreter. |
| 01:20:56 | tarcieri | seydar: what do you want that for? parallelism? |
| 01:21:32 | tarcieri | seydar: if you want parallelism I think the better approach is to model as multiple CPUs, not a CPU with some features for doing certain limited things in parallel |
| 01:23:19 | seydar | tarcieri: i wanted to speed up the process of executing bytecodes |
| 01:23:31 | seydar | and doing multiple CPUs would be cool, and probably a better way |
| 01:26:09 | cout | it's probably the right way to go if you're building a vm in hardware |
| 01:26:17 | cout | s/vm/interpreter/ |
| 01:31:41 | seydar | cout: yea, i've scratched that idea |
| 01:31:47 | seydar | and i have a new one, just as crazy |
| 01:31:54 | jtoy leaves the room. | |
| 01:32:13 | seydar | but this time, i think its actually doable |
| 01:33:15 | seydar | but i wont spill the beans just yet |
| 01:33:53 | seydar | i'll write up a post about it first, and then send it to dr brain to critique before having the community rip it to shreds |
| 01:34:26 | dbussink | brixen: poke |
| 01:34:41 | seydar | adiaux al cxiu |
| 01:34:50 | brixen | dbussink: yah |
| 01:34:54 | wycats enters the room. | |
| 01:35:09 | brixen | wycats: when you get a chance, email me? |
| 01:35:11 | dbussink | brixen: in for a bite tonight or already busy? |
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| 01:41:13 | brixen | dbussink: hmm, I think we're going to hack for a bit and then play video games at ground control |
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| 01:41:36 | dbussink | brixen: ah ok, no problemo |
| 01:43:54 | brixen | dbussink: good to spend some time with you all, probably won't see you before you leave, so have a safe flight back |
| 01:44:40 | dbussink | brixen: yeah, good we have a relax day planned tomorrow before we actually leave |
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| 01:47:09 | wycats | brixen: ? |
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| 01:48:22 | brixen | wycats: the code, mate. the code ;) |
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| 01:58:24 | wycats | brixen: I'll give it to you now |
| 01:59:16 | wycats | http://pastie.caboo.se/206971 |
| 02:00:35 | wycats | this is the important line: obj = obj.const_defined?(x) ? obj.const_get(x) : obj.const_missing(x) |
| 02:00:49 | wycats | Defiler: I think you mentioned you wanted to look at it too |
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| 02:23:03 | wycats | this sentence appears in a book I bought at Powell's: ""While interpreters fell into disuse because of their EXTREME slowness, they are again becoming of interest because of the systems control they provide for multi-programming real-time systems" |
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| 02:39:44 | rubuildius_ppc | Eric Hodel: 5386311bd; 2188 files, 7253 examples, 25969 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 02:42:29 | wycats | drbrain: hey |
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| 03:12:52 | cout | wycats: real-time? |
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| 03:36:06 | rue | dbussink: Jetlaggy |
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| 04:14:17 | wycats | cout: ? |
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| 05:23:49 | boyscout | 1 commit by Vincent Lu |
| 05:23:50 | boyscout | * Makes Iconv#iconv convert the substring specified by start and length.; f2aba8f |
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| 05:36:13 | rubuildius_ppc | Vincent Lu: f2aba8f50; 2188 files, 7253 examples, 25969 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 05:37:36 | Defiler | vincentl1: Thanks for working on Iconv. Very cool |
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| 05:57:38 | boyscout | 1 commit by Brian Ford |
| 05:57:39 | boyscout | * Fixed Github URL for RubySpec repository.; 6147c69 |
| 05:59:29 | cout | why does rbconfig set CONFIG["PREFIX"] instead of CONFIG["prefix"]? |
| 06:00:16 | brixen | cout: because it needs to be fixed |
| 06:00:45 | brixen | cout: I've got a partial patch for it to add the rest of the stuff mkmf.rb needs |
| 06:01:19 | cout | brixen: I don't suppose you'd send me the patch? |
| 06:01:38 | brixen | cout: I'll commit it in a bit |
| 06:01:48 | brixen | it'll need more work, but it's a start |
| 06:01:52 | cout | (mkmf is actually what I was playing with, but it's just a side task along the way to my real goal) |
| 06:01:59 | brixen | ok |
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| 06:10:21 | rubuildius_amd64 | Brian Ford: 6147c6902; 2188 files, 7231 examples, 25913 expectations, 1 failure, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/WV3oAE98.html |
| 06:10:35 | rubuildius_ppc | Brian Ford: 6147c6902; 2188 files, 7253 examples, 25969 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
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| 06:13:57 | tarcieri | WTF @ how Ruby lexes symbols |
| 06:14:44 | tarcieri | (:-) and (:+) are fine... if you just type in :- or :+ it wants more tokens |
| 06:15:27 | tarcieri | s/lexes/parses/ |
| 06:15:31 | tarcieri | well both, heh |
| 06:15:45 | cout | tarcieri: works for me |
| 06:15:46 | dysinger leaves the room. | |
| 06:15:53 | tarcieri | what? |
| 06:15:57 | cout | tarcieri: which version of ruby are you using? |
| 06:16:04 | tarcieri | either 1.8 or 1.9 |
| 06:16:08 | tarcieri | what 'works'? |
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| 06:16:40 | cout | cout@bean:~$ ruby -v -e 'p :-' |
| 06:16:41 | cout | ruby 1.8.6 (2008-03-03 patchlevel 114) [i686-linux] |
| 06:16:41 | cout | :- |
| 06:17:07 | tarcieri | maybe it's irb's failing then |
| 06:17:09 | cout | I think your complaint is against irb, maybe? |
| 06:17:20 | cout | irb's kinda funky sometimes |
| 06:17:55 | tarcieri | oh weird, doing it in rbx I have to hit ^D a bunch of times and then it finally prints it before exiting |
| 06:18:25 | tarcieri | aah MRI does the same |
| 06:18:36 | tarcieri | bizzare |
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| 06:21:21 | brixen | tarcieri: irb has it's own lexer |
| 06:21:42 | tarcieri | I see |
| 06:21:53 | tarcieri | that was some really weird behavior |
| 06:21:53 | brixen | tarcieri: you should expect same behavior in irb on rbx and mri, same code |
| 06:21:59 | tarcieri | yes |
| 06:22:01 | tarcieri | it's the same |
| 06:22:03 | brixen | yeah |
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| 06:32:09 | rubuildius_amd64 | Vincent Lu: f2aba8f50; 2188 files, 7231 examples, 25913 expectations, 1 failure, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/H054Xr21.html |
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| 12:46:41 | cout | hmm, subtend doesn't get installed when I run make install |
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| 19:00:43 | VVSiz | brixen: ping :) |
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| 20:01:26 | brixen | just attended a talk by Matthias Felleisen |
| 20:01:40 | brixen | on static typing |
| 20:01:46 | brixen | very cool |
| 20:01:48 | wycats | hey brixen |
| 20:01:58 | brixen | hey wycats_, how goes? |
| 20:02:00 | wycats | are you still in pdx? |
| 20:02:06 | wycats | I |
| 20:02:08 | wycats | I'm good |
| 20:02:11 | wycats | did you get the code? |
| 20:02:13 | brixen | wycats_: yeah, on account of my living here and all :) |
| 20:02:17 | brixen | yeah, thanks! |
| 20:02:24 | wycats | oh snap |
| 20:02:35 | wycats | no chance you'd want to do lunch, is there? |
| 20:02:54 | brixen | hmm, just ate, and I'm at psu atm |
| 20:03:01 | brixen | can I get a raincheck? |
| 20:03:03 | wycats | coo |
| 20:03:05 | wycats | yessir |
| 20:04:20 | wycats | brixen: I think rbx should probably have some internal code that looks a lot like what I sent |
| 20:04:23 | wycats | for regular constant lookup |
| 20:04:33 | brixen | yeah, Defiler will pull it in |
| 20:04:42 | brixen | we've got it, but he'll double check the algo |
| 20:04:48 | brixen | I spoke with him about it yesterday |
| 20:08:53 | wycats | sweet |
| 20:09:08 | wycats | can I get the inquisitor code? |
| 20:11:01 | brixen | sure, http://github.com/wilson/inquisitor/tree/master |
| 20:11:12 | wycats | snap |
| 20:11:18 | brixen | we'll likely pull it into /demo in rbx soon |
| 20:11:21 | wycats | merb_rbx_devmode here we come :) |
| 20:11:26 | brixen | :D |
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| 20:13:10 | tarcieri | if anyone cares: the mongrel developers said they'd take a patch from me to generate a mongrel gem for the rbx platform |
| 20:13:28 | tarcieri | using the Rubinius.asm parser |
| 20:14:25 | brixen | tarcieri: sweet |
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| 21:06:35 | anonuser | Did anyone attend RailsConf? |
| 21:08:22 | brixen | anonuser: yeah, quite a few |
| 21:08:37 | brixen | anonuser: don't really know a count though of those who are typically here in channel |
| 21:08:42 | anonuser | heh |
| 21:09:06 | anonuser | Not sure if it's allowed but are there any videos of the presentations? |
| 21:09:21 | brixen | there's this: http://onrails.org/articles/2008/05/31/railsconf-2008-david-heinemeier-hanssons-keynote-video |
| 21:09:39 | brixen | unfortunately, they didn't generally video record the talks :( |
| 21:09:42 | brixen | not sure why not |
| 21:09:49 | anonuser | :( |
| 21:10:11 | brixen | yeah, bummer even for attendees. there were often more than 2 good talks going on at once |
| 21:10:14 | anonuser | I kind of wanted to see the Rubinius talk |
| 21:10:36 | brixen | there were 4 tracks and a vendor track, so like 5 talks at once typically |
| 21:10:55 | brixen | most people I talked to were bummed the talks weren't recorded |
| 21:12:02 | VVSiz | the git preso was *really* nice (judging by slides and partial recording) |
| 21:12:24 | brixen | missed that one :( |
| 21:13:28 | VVSiz | http://jointheconversation.org/2008/06/02/railsconf-git-talk/ |
| 21:13:40 | anonuser | Cool |
| 21:13:48 | anonuser | At least I can see one presentation |
| 21:14:19 | VVSiz | :) I think the keynote is available as well, DHH talk too. |
| 21:14:29 | VVSiz | but again, very bad quality :( |
| 21:15:29 | VVSiz | anonuser: most of the link to online content can be found here: http://www.rubyinside.com/railsconf-2008-round-up-910.html (in case if you missed it) |
| 21:16:30 | anonuser | Thanks |
| 21:16:42 | anonuser | I generally frequent rubyflow.com but I guess I missed it |
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| 21:41:34 | anonuser | There needs to be a standard for capturing video at presentations :( |
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| 21:49:55 | wycats | anonuser: we just need to do distributed video capturing |
| 21:49:59 | wycats | with a central upload source |
| 21:50:03 | anonuser | hah |
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| 22:53:42 | boyscout | 1 commit by Brian Ford |
| 22:53:43 | boyscout | * Added Config::MAKEFILE_CONFIG structure needed by mkmf.rb.; 7a25999 |
| 22:54:24 | mass enters the room. | |
| 22:55:12 | mass | waves hello |
| 22:55:24 | evan | allo masspectromitor! |
| 22:55:27 | evan | (sic) |
| 22:56:00 | mass | I was so tired of being jealous of those who got to go to railsconf |
| 22:56:12 | mass | but soon I can be jealous of those at WWDC |
| 22:56:16 | mass | :) |
| 22:56:48 | thehcdreamer leaves the room. | |
| 22:56:54 | evan | he |
| 22:56:55 | evan | me too |
| 22:58:48 | mass | what other conferences should I be looking at for this year? I'd love to swing by one. I was originally hoping to get someone to spring for railsconf europe, but the timing on that one is rather bad |
| 22:59:11 | mass | I'm pretty sure I can't take more time off work then without finding a new job first :) |
| 22:59:33 | brixen | mass: rubyconf! :) |
| 22:59:45 | mass | but what about apachecon? |
| 22:59:57 | mass | just kidding :D |
| 23:00:00 | brixen | mass: can you get to oscon? |
| 23:00:22 | brixen | it's in lovely pdx, and you can pretend you're at railsconf but listening to python and stuff :P |
| 23:03:19 | mass | I love how they have a level above 'platinum' sponsors :D |
| 23:03:34 | mass | although they should have called them "adamantium sponsors" or something |
| 23:03:38 | evan | mass: where do you live again? |
| 23:03:45 | mass | evan: where did you see me last? |
| 23:03:53 | evan | um... |
| 23:03:56 | mass | denver :) |
| 23:03:59 | evan | ah yes. |
| 23:04:09 | evan | you should come out to rubyconf |
| 23:04:12 | evan | it's going to be a blast |
| 23:04:20 | evan | i'm showing up days early again |
| 23:04:24 | evan | thats totally the way to go |
| 23:04:26 | brixen | mass: denver was like 1/2 century ago in rubinius years :) |
| 23:05:14 | mass | brixen: I know, back then I was doing php dev. |
| 23:05:18 | brixen | damn bots must have follen asleep with all the slow traffic recently |
| 23:05:21 | mass | now I've moved up the ladder to java dev :) |
| 23:05:39 | boyscout | 2 commits by Cezar Sa Espinola |
| 23:05:40 | boyscout | * Adding rb_str_to_str to subtend, with specs.; 1eae078 |
| 23:05:41 | boyscout | * Adding rb_convert_type, with failing tagged specs. Also DRYing rb_check_{array,string ...; b311ad3 |
| 23:06:08 | mass | leaves any indication of sarcasm in that remark especially vague out of respect for some of the members of the room :) |
| 23:06:14 | brixen | hah |
| 23:06:34 | evan | go cezar |
| 23:06:38 | evan | that man is a machine! |
| 23:06:47 | cezarsa | evan: eheheheh :D |
| 23:07:00 | cezarsa | just playing with subtend on my spare time |
| 23:07:19 | mass | I'll tell you, I was sick and took it as an opportunity to watch railscasts, starting from the beginning. somehow I felt it was a productive weekend. |
| 23:07:36 | mass | and I'm fairly sure I could just build up a playlist and fullscreen them at work and nobody would notice ;-) |
| 23:08:06 | evan | cezarsa: you're doing an awesome job |
| 23:09:26 | mass | when is rubyconf? I missed the one in denver because it was so hard to find out :P |
| 23:09:44 | evan | mass: november |
| 23:10:50 | mass | oh wait, in orlando? |
| 23:11:15 | evan | yeah |
| 23:11:22 | cezarsa | evan: I think there's a major issue with rb_funcall, depending on parameters it fails very badly with a segfault |
| 23:11:37 | evan | cezarsa: oh. do you have an example of the problem? |
| 23:12:17 | mass | I should be able to make it to that, excellent :D |
| 23:12:22 | evan | yay! |
| 23:12:42 | evan | I think i'm going to plan more rubinius specific activities at rubyconf |
| 23:12:46 | evan | hackfests, etc. |
| 23:13:09 | cezarsa | let me clean up my mess and i'll write a ticket with a example, the strange is that it doesn't happen on irb |
| 23:13:19 | evan | cezarsa: ok. |
| 23:16:57 | mass | evan: just keeping up with rubinius development is rather intense :) |
| 23:17:09 | evan | heh |
| 23:18:47 | rubuildius_ppc | Cezar Sa Espinola: 1eae078d8; 2188 files, 7254 examples, 25973 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 23:18:48 | rubuildius_ppc | Brian Ford: 7a25999ab; 2188 files, 7253 examples, 25969 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors |
| 23:19:36 | rue enters the room. | |
| 23:19:43 | evan | rue: hey! |
| 23:19:45 | evan | back in OH? |
| 23:20:12 | rue | evan: Hey hey, yeah. Got back yesterday |
| 23:20:47 | evan | cool. |
| 23:20:55 | evan | things doing better? |
| 23:22:37 | rue | Yeah, settling down. I am flying back in a couple weeks to help them out but then I will be able to participate normally otherwise |
| 23:22:50 | evan | cool. |
| 23:22:53 | rue | s/then/on that visit/ |
| 23:23:12 | rue | How did everything go in Portland? |
| 23:23:18 | evan | great |
| 23:23:27 | evan | maglev caused a stir |
| 23:23:30 | evan | thats probably the big news. |
| 23:24:01 | rue | Oh? I have not caught up with my news at all yet |
| 23:24:23 | lopex | lots of posts related to maglev lately |
| 23:25:00 | lopex | I wonder how many changes they had to make in the VM |
| 23:25:45 | rue | They are basically doing closed source if it is Gemstone, right? |
| 23:25:57 | lopex | mostly afair |
| 23:26:16 | cezarsa | I heard that at the time maglev is a huge vaporware, that's true? |
| 23:26:27 | djwhitt | rue: supposedly the Ruby code will be open |
| 23:26:37 | djwhitt | rue: C/C++ VM code will be closed |
| 23:27:06 | rubuildius_amd64 | Cezar Sa Espinola: 1eae078d8; 2188 files, 7232 examples, 25917 expectations, 1 failure, 0 errors; http://rafb.net/p/JpBemN27.html |
| 23:27:16 | rue | I would not call anything three months old "vaporware." Gemstone is a solid St platform |
| 23:29:50 | jp_tix | do you guys know if the maglev or rubinius presentation was taped? |
| 23:34:21 | cezarsa | evan: http://pastie.org/207483, do you have any clue for that behavior? |
| 23:34:52 | mass | maglev sounds interesting, but charging for language implementations is a hard sell |
| 23:35:16 | mass | look at eiffel, and they had the benefit of creating said language |
| 23:35:52 | lopex | and rebol |
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| 23:39:19 | timo | From the sounds of things, they'll have a free version, and a paid version |
| 23:39:34 | timo | The free version would have limitations about how much data you could have in their object database, and possibly other limitations |
| 23:39:55 | timo | As a pure language implementation (ie using mysql for your db, etc), it may very well work just fine for free |
| 23:40:02 | timo | though it still wouldn't be open source |
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| 23:46:37 | evan | cezarsa: hm. |
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| 23:49:32 | cezarsa | evan: i tried to debug it but soon got lost inside shotgun's barrels :) |
| 23:50:20 | evan | :D |
| 23:50:27 | evan | let me try it now. |
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| 23:51:37 | mass | I think last time I looked into shotgun I got hit by some buckshot ;-) |
| 23:51:59 | cezarsa | ehehe :) |
| 23:53:27 | mass | for some reason that made me think of a single word, "Cheneymania" |
| 23:55:55 | tarcieri | WTF @ rand |
| 23:56:01 | tarcieri | on MRI |
| 23:57:05 | tarcieri | a = [1,2,3,4,5]; (0..15).map { a.sort! { rand }.dup } |
| 23:57:15 | tarcieri | repeats the same 4 arrangements over and over |
| 23:57:27 | evan | oh |
| 23:57:30 | evan | yeah, thats stupid rand. |
| 23:57:32 | evan | you have to do |
| 23:57:35 | evan | rand(a.size) |
| 23:57:41 | tarcieri | aah |
| 23:57:52 | evan | otherwise it returns floats |
| 23:58:00 | evan | actually... |
| 23:58:02 | tarcieri | nope, same problem |
| 23:58:02 | evan | that should work. |
| 23:58:12 | evan | o oh. |
| 23:58:12 | benny enters the room. | |
| 23:58:13 | evan | no |
| 23:58:14 | evan | you want |
| 23:58:15 | evan | sort_by |
| 23:58:27 | tarcieri | there's no sort_by! :( |
| 23:58:31 | evan | yeah there is. |
| 23:58:32 | evan | oh |
| 23:58:36 | evan | no, there isn't. |
| 23:58:36 | mass | I love how the examples on the rand page are reproducable by copy and paste |
| 23:58:51 | evan | tarcieri: the block to sort is expected to return true or false |
| 23:58:54 | evan | er. |
| 23:58:57 | evan | -1, 0, or 1 |
| 23:59:03 | evan | to indicate the comparison |
| 23:59:17 | tarcieri | yeah, hmm |
| 23:59:46 | evan | why do you want the original array mutated? |