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00:00:04evannot something that abstracts the user so much
00:00:11evanbecause if it's too abstract
00:00:20evanwe have to know all the crazy ways it will have to work
00:00:25evanwhere as if we provide a simple API
00:00:30evanthe user has to be a little more knowledgable
00:00:49evanbut it can work with almost any setup without having to have us add new abstraction options
00:02:09rueShould we not just use conditionals for platform/ then?
00:02:35evanperhaps we should
00:02:50evani know what ya mean
00:02:52evanthough
00:02:57evani get the module layer effect
00:03:10evani think we should build simple APIs first
00:03:30evanthen, as we experiment, maybe write a little more abstract APIs on top of the original ones
00:03:37evanrather than going to the most abstract right out of the gate
00:03:44wmoxam leaves the room.
00:04:37evanok, i have to run some errands.
00:04:38rueUsing your API there is still the dichtomy between bootup and later binds. I just think if we can combine the two in some simple manner, it is the best way
00:04:46evani think we can
00:05:02evani'm just in favor of having the more low level APIs too
00:05:06rueThe method by which that is achieved is of course the problem. I will proto with Defiler a bit and see how it feels
00:05:16evannot requiring a user to use the really highlevel, abstract one.
00:05:29evanit's ok to have the highlevel, abstract one
00:05:33rue leaves the room.
00:05:36evanbut it can never cover all the cases
00:05:41evanso you need to leave the door open
00:05:46evanthus layer APIs
00:05:52evanlayered
00:06:05evanyeah, work with Defiler
00:06:09evananyway, gotta run.
00:06:12evanbbl
00:06:18rue enters the room.
00:06:58atduskgreg enters the room.
00:06:59rueStupid DHCP
00:07:09rueI would prefer the user use the simplest possible one for _them_ :)
00:07:11rueAnyway, you errands me bed--till tomorrow
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00:12:24boyscout1 commit by Federico Builes
00:12:25boyscout * Revert "Adding a match_yaml matcher to MSpec."; 9075e5e
00:12:37fbuilesvI'm sorry, that should go to the new MSpec repos.
00:14:31brixenheh, it will be here soon though! :)
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00:17:32fbuilesvbrixen: 'SpinnerFormatter#after updates the spinner' FAILED, that's ok?
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00:17:51brixenfbuilesv: all the specs pass for me
00:17:54brixenwhat system are you on?
00:18:04fbuilesvbrixen: OS 10.5.3
00:18:13brixenweird
00:18:17brixenpastie?
00:18:40fbuilesvbrixen: http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/222267
00:20:00brixenhrm, can't repro it
00:21:01fbuilesvbrixen: nevermind, it's something with Emacs shell.
00:21:03brixenoh wait, that's terminal dependent
00:21:04brixenyeah
00:21:13brixenyou're running in emacs?
00:21:28fbuilesvbrixen: yes sir, you're not expecting me to run TextMate, right? :P
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00:22:17brixenfbuilesv: heh, absolutely! :P
00:22:29brixenfbuilesv: you could make the spec aware
00:22:37brixenit just assumes a *real* terminal :P
00:23:01fbuilesvbrixen: let me see if I can do that
00:23:03fbuilesvwow
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00:23:06fbuilesvthat was a low blow
00:24:10brixenheh
00:24:12brixenj/k
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00:26:55drbrainoh, yeah, we need to have NoKarma not indent private/protected
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00:28:41djwhittout of curiosity what do you guys consider proper formatting for private/protected?
00:30:02benburkert___ enters the room.
00:30:48fbuilesvindents to def level.
00:31:25fbuilesvis there a "standard practice" for that?
00:32:36djwhittnot sure. there seems to be pretty good consensus about most Ruby formatting, but I've never been able to figure that one out
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00:33:19brixenI indent private/etc to same level as normal def, rather than adding an indentation level
00:33:30brixenclass F
00:33:34brixen private
00:33:36brixen def foo; end
00:34:36drbrainit has always been like ^^
00:34:41drbrainrails does it wrong
00:34:52djwhittgotcha. I've seen it that way. I've also seen defs following the private indented an extra level and I've seen private/protected keywords unindented
00:35:14drbrainall wrong
00:35:21djwhitthehe
00:35:39drbrain:)
00:35:51djwhittwhile we're on the subject, what about case statements?
00:36:11djwhittdoes the "when" go on the same level as the "case"?
00:36:49drbrainyes
00:37:01fbuilesvaccording to ruby.el yes, according to me that's just ugly :P
00:37:13drbrainyou don't indent elsif or else...
00:37:55djwhitthttp://pastie.org/222272
00:38:03djwhittso you do the second one?
00:38:10fbuilesvnope
00:38:19brixenwhen is subordinate to case, either is fine
00:38:23brixenC does it the top way
00:38:30brixencase and if/else are not parallel structures
00:38:30djwhittyeah, that's how I do it
00:39:04djwhittC was my first language so the other way looks weird to me
00:39:10fbuilesvI do it the top way but if it's simple enough I do http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/222273
00:39:28brixenfbuilesv: when foo: blah :P
00:39:34brixenI hate 'then' with a passion
00:39:38fbuilesvbrixen: basic? :P
00:39:41brixenfeels like BASIC to me
00:39:44fbuilesvhaha
00:39:47jbarnettebrixen: that's a bummer, since the colon isn't canonical :)
00:39:57brixencanonical?
00:40:00fbuilesvI hated it too until I used it in Haskell and thought that for small things that's actually readable
00:40:19drbrainC case is a block, right?
00:40:23drbraincase is not
00:40:30drbrain... C switch
00:40:35djwhittdrbrain: yeah, it is
00:40:48djwhittthough in C the individual cases are not blocks
00:40:50brixencase ends with 'end', that's not a block?
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00:41:12djwhitthehe, oh dear... maybe I shouldn't have asked
00:41:45drbrainbrixen: you have swith(value) { ... } (syntatic group)
00:42:07djwhittC switch is really a totally different beast. I'm just used to how it looks
00:42:14drbrainbut when contains the interesting code, and there's no intermixing like C switch
00:42:19drbrain... no need to break
00:42:55djwhittI'll probably just give in to the second syntax since that what vim likes anyway
00:43:25cremesrubuildius_ppc got hung on some commit from around 2:52 am cdt, so i killed it
00:43:37cremesi ran the last commit by hand and had one failure: http://pastie.org/222276
00:43:57drbrainoh, I forgot to re-tag
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00:44:13fbuilesvbrixen: pushed it, formatting is serious business :P
00:44:15neelancehmpf, nasty problem on the wii: net_init() fails if you call it too early ... i hate such bugs
00:44:28drbrainbrixen: actually, how should we handle that?
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00:44:53drbrainI removed a spec from spec/ruby, should I add a tag in spec/frozen, or do the removal in spec/frozen as well?
00:45:10brixendrbrain: add a tag
00:45:16drbrainok
00:45:27brixenunless you want to update frozen, which is dicey atm
00:45:33brixenbecause of hangs in socket and net/**
00:45:48drbrainI will just add a tag
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00:45:57brixentook me several hours to get it to not hang last night :)
00:47:17drbrainI wonder why git:safe_push did not pick that up for me
00:48:08boyscout1 commit by Eric Hodel
00:48:09boyscout * Add temporary tag for removal of Data class until frozen is updated.; 40bc136
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00:53:04drbrainruby 1.9 is getting MVM support
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01:07:01neelancewow, i think i just got a modified version of the windows-pipe-workaround working on the wii
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01:26:07evanneelance: woo!
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01:29:07brixenI wish ruby had s/a/b/ syntax
01:31:24tarcieriheh, really?
01:31:33neelancebye
01:31:49TheProkrammerSo make it....
01:31:58tarcierihas first class regexps in Reia but is getting rid of most Perlisms that relate to them
01:32:04TheProkrammernot that you can do it EXACTLY like that :)
01:32:16tarcieriyou can do... sub/gsub
01:32:16tarcieriheh
01:32:28brixentarcieri: yeah, the idea is to keep the thing together
01:32:30TheProkrammers(a, b) is pretty close...
01:33:00brixentarcieri: I need an array of arrays [[/f/, 's'], [/b/, 'd']] sort of thing
01:33:23brixentarcieri: for a series of transforms
01:33:56tarcieriok
01:34:20tarcieriinput.each { |regexp, string| str.gsub!(regexp, string) }
01:34:20tarcieri?
01:34:39brixentarcieri: yeah, basically
01:35:09tarcieriyay side effects, I need to get around to implementing those at some point
01:35:18tarcieriside effects are a feature, don'tcha know
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04:11:02ryanlowehey folks
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04:14:04drbrainryanlowe: hi
04:15:38ryanlowewith the rather interesting state of MRI I figured I'd come check Rubinius out
04:15:44ryanloweI saw Evan's talk on Confreaks
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04:16:16ryanloweI've been freelancing with Rails for the past 3 years ... might be able to lend a hand in bits and pieces
04:16:41ryanlowe...to get Rubinius up to snuff
04:16:49ryanloweis it hard to get going?
04:16:52drbraincool
04:16:55drbrainnope
04:17:15ryanlowewell I can RTFM if you can point me the way :)
04:17:40drbrainhttp://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/contribute
04:17:46drbrainis a good place to start
04:18:04drbrainand http://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/getting-started to download rubinius
04:19:30ryanlowesweet
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05:58:09ryanloweMatzRuby is MRI 1.8?
05:58:15ryanloweI've never heard it called that before
05:58:51ryanloweof course MRI = Matz's Ruby Intepreter ... (duh me)
05:59:40ryanlowedoes "MatzRuby" (like in the FAQ) usually refer to MRI itself or the language "spec"?
06:00:58drbrainyes
06:01:02drbraincorundum: MRI?
06:01:02corundumMRI is Matz' Ruby Interpreter, typically the 1.8 branch
06:01:19drbrainthe implemenattion
06:01:30ryanlowecorundum: MatzRuby
06:01:39ryanlowecorundum: MatzRuby?
06:01:39corundum...eh?
06:01:43ryanlowe:)
06:01:43drbraincorundum needs a ?
06:01:43corundumwho knows?
06:02:13ryanlowethanks, just wanted to be sure
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06:02:31drbrainsome people use it to refer to 1.8 or 1.9
06:02:55ryanloweFAQ: "MatzRuby 1.9, for example, is two orders of magnitude larger"
06:03:24ryanlowethe next version of MRI, I assume
06:03:28ryanlowenot YARV or something
06:03:38ryanlowesome development branch of MRI
06:03:59drbrainYARV was merged with 1.9
06:04:42ryanloweoh i seeee
06:06:13drbrainthere's no need to call it 'YARV' anymore :)
06:07:43ryanloweheh, good tip
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06:09:33ryanloweso MRI 1.8 is an intepreter and MRI 1.9 is a virtual machine? or is it named incorrectly?
06:09:52ryanloweseems like semantics, but not really eh
06:10:08ryanloweRubinius is definitely a VM
06:10:52ryanlowewikipedia says: "YARV is a bytecode interpreter"?
06:11:24ryanloweI'll stop asking rhetorical questions now :)
06:11:53drbrainrarely do you need to make the version distinction
06:12:26drbrainso, yeah, it's not really important to say MRVM, which doesn't roll of the tongue
06:12:29drbrain:)
06:12:35ryanloweha
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06:13:18ryanlowemaybe i'm just misunderstanding the difference between an intepreter and a VM
06:13:43drbrainthere's definitely a difference
06:14:08drbrainMRI is just a term of convenience
06:14:56drbraininterpreters walk an AST, VMs run VM code
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06:15:08ryanloweright, bytecode
06:15:19drbrainyes
06:15:33ryanloweI always thought MRI was the former
06:15:53ryanlowebecause of the name, never really dug into it :)
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06:16:16drbrain75% of the time, we use MRI to mean "ruby 1.8"
06:16:23drbrainmaybe 90%
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07:37:11boyscout4 commits by Chad Fowler
07:37:12boyscout * catching up compiler specs with rescue splat fix; 26334f6
07:37:13boyscout * Fixed rescue *splat_exception_list; be265d4
07:37:14boyscout * mini unit was using the accessor name :name which might (and does) clash with method ...; 336e07d
07:37:15boyscout * changing to internal versions of method calls; beb1119
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08:11:21rueThis is just silly now
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08:13:06rueBrb
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08:13:52dbussinkrue: http://www.sillywalksgenerator.com/
08:17:00rueHehee
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12:51:16rueEevery hour
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12:55:11cremesrubuildius_ppc was acting up; i believe it is fixed now; away for the day so i'll check this evening (11 hours from now)
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16:27:18dgtizedwe need a smoke test page like this: http://smoke.parrotcode.org/smoke/
16:27:33dgtizedthat we submit to every time we run bin/mspec ci or rake spec:ci
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16:52:34ruedgtized: Could maybe extend the CI code zenspider has
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16:53:01rueCI dashboard or wossname
16:56:54brixendgtized: you mean something like http://ci.rubini.us
16:56:59brixendgtized: it's being worked on
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17:23:10ruebrixen: Looks like the smokes can be submitted by anyone though
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17:25:20brixenrue: exactly
17:25:29brixenrue: I'll have a graphic here in a sec
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17:29:03brixenpastie: for rue
17:29:44pastierue: http://pastie.org/222712 by brixen.
17:30:07brixenrue: something like that is what I've discussed with zenspider
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17:51:25neelancehey tarcieri, are you there? i really need a little bit of your help
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17:55:06neelancebecause i found out that there is a quite powerful threading library for the wii and it might be possible to create a replacement for libev with it
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18:03:08neelancehmm, maybe use libev but with a new backend
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18:12:19ruebrixen: Looks good
18:12:33rueneelance: Latter seems like the better option on the face of it
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18:15:58evanstupid body
18:16:07evanjeeet laaag....
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18:19:12dgtizedbrixen: I know about ci.rubini.us -- but as far as I understood it wasn't taking submissions from whoever runs the tests
18:20:22dgtizedbrixen: oops didn't see rue's and your conversation immediately afterwards
18:20:53dgtizedon a completely seperate note -- I see the ci bots are having the same 2 specs failures I've been having for weeks that supposedly shouldn't even be tested
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18:21:09dgtizedI thought those tests were being removed?
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18:30:21rueevan: Enjoy it, it will just get worse :)
18:30:39rueGoing West always seems worse than East though
18:31:58evanit is.
18:32:43boyscout1 commit by Gianluigi Spagnuolo
18:32:44boyscout * Added BigDecimal#remainder and updated BigDecimal#to_f; 9bf0c7f
18:34:04ryanloweunless you're going West to Vegas, of course :)
18:34:21evanoh wait.
18:34:22evanno no
18:34:26evangoing West is much easier for me
18:34:44evanwhen I got to Japan, wasn't tired at all during the day
18:35:04ryanlowesame ... coming back from Vancouver on the redeye was murder
18:35:28ryanloweand that was only 3 hrs, I can't imagine Asia or Hawaii
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18:45:22rueErm yes, I mean East. Against the clock
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19:10:04jp_tixeast is against the clock? hmm
19:10:49drbrainjp_tix: towards the sunrise
19:11:17evanie, you're multipling body hours changed
19:11:33evanrather than dividing them
19:12:42jp_tixi would think east would be "with the clock"
19:12:56jp_tixbut might be just me not being a native english speaker
19:13:04evanit's a bad phrase anyway
19:13:44jp_tixtravelling east i would turn my watch clockwise, right? not counter-clockwise
19:14:44evanyep
19:14:49evanthough, if you travel far enough
19:14:55evanyou could turn it either direction.
19:15:00jp_tixsure :)
19:15:02evanso i'm not sure that works
19:15:02evan:)
19:15:50jp_tixif i travel that far, i should probably have gone west anyway :P
19:16:20ryanlowethat's why i only travel north-south
19:16:30ryanlowe:)
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19:16:46jp_tixhehe, yeah, avoid confusion at any cost
19:17:05drbrainevan: oh, what are we going to do about the ppc build bot?
19:17:12drbrainI have a ppc machine that could be used
19:17:23drbrainbut I'd have to rearrange my house so I wouldn't hear it
19:17:42evani've got my ppc laptop
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19:20:35reynardHow to enable rbx command in bash?
19:22:03drbrainreynard: you'll have to install rubinius
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19:22:10drbrainor use the absolute path to your checkout
19:22:17drbrain`rake install` will install rubinius
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19:23:20reynardWiki says: "Currently do not install". Can I do it anyway?
19:23:40evanack. where do you see that?
19:23:44evanit's fine to install now.
19:23:44drbrainURL?
19:24:25reynardhttp://rubinius.lighthouseapp.com/projects/5089/installation
19:24:52drbrainI will fix
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19:25:53drbrainall better
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19:27:04reynardYeah, thanks a lot
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19:31:26fbuilesvdrbrain: got 5 mins to check some socket stuff?
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19:31:35drbrainfbuilesv: sure
19:31:47fbuilesvdrbrain: http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/222795 Currently it works on Linux but not on OS X
19:32:12fbuilesvnot sure how OS X might handle this but if I change <broadcast> for my internal net broadcast addr (192.168.1.255) it seems to work
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19:33:22drbrain<broadcast> should be 255.255.255.255
19:33:38fbuilesvdrbrain: yup
19:33:54fbuilesvbut I can't seem to bind it like that, using either <broadcast> or 255.255.255.255
19:34:19fbuilesvas I said, in another Linux system it works fine but I don't know if it might be machine dependent
19:34:45drbrainI think <broadcast> might be
19:34:48drbrainsec
19:35:36drbrains.bind '<broadcast>', 9000
19:35:45drbrainErrno::EADDRNOTAVAIL: Can't assign requested address - bind(2)
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19:35:50drbrainalso on FreeBSD 6
19:36:12drbrainalso:
19:36:19drbrainSocket.getaddrinfo '<broadcast>', 9000
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19:36:29drbrainSocketError: getaddrinfo: servname not supported for ai_socktype
19:36:34drbrainon FreeBSD, on OS X:
19:36:41drbrainSocket.getaddrinfo '<broadcast>', 9000
19:36:50drbrainSocketError: getaddrinfo: nodename nor servname provided, or not known
19:36:58drbrainwhich is the first thing udp_bind does in socket.c
19:36:58fbuilesvdo you suggest to skip that check for everything but linux then?
19:37:15drbrainyes
19:37:19drbrainactually, no
19:37:24drbrainjust remove it outright
19:37:32fbuilesvdrbrain: ok, thanks!
19:37:46drbrainit's a linux-only behavior, so it's testing libc, not anything ruby
19:37:53drbrainoh, hrm
19:38:02drbrainthere is something down here in host_str
19:38:05fbuilesvyeah
19:38:15fbuilesv<broadcast> gets turned into 0xffffffff
19:38:23drbrainyeah
19:38:29fbuilesvthat's why I was wondering if it was something with bind(2) or something
19:39:07drbrainwell, why's it complaining about servname on freebsd?
19:40:03fbuilesvI'm not sure, socktype is SOCK_DGRAM so I think it should bind fine on broadcast addresses but I'm no networking guru
19:40:22drbrainI meant Socket.getaddrinfo
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19:41:49fbuilesvI'm not sure, if I try it like getaddrinfo '<broadcast>' it doesn't work on OS X either, but with "255.255.255.255" works just fine
19:42:27drbrainwhat's especially puzzling to me is that it fails on FreeBSD only complaining about servname
19:43:13fbuilesvdoes it work with the IP address?
19:44:02drbrainyeah
19:45:02drbrainmaybe this is a bug
19:45:31fbuilesvI don't think getaddrinfo translates <broadcast> into the address
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19:47:46fbuilesvnope, it doesn't seem to call host_str in getaddrinfo.c
19:48:04fbuilesvso it'll probably recognize '<broadcast>' as just a string and fail to resolve it
19:50:52drbrainlooking
19:52:07rueHeading out for a bit
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19:53:27MenTaLguYhowdy
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20:07:13drbrainfbuilesv: yeah, I think it is platform specific :/
20:07:51fbuilesvdrbrain: I left it out of the spec set since I'm not entirely sure if it'll work on other Linux machines.
20:08:31drbrainI monkeyed around in 1.8.7, and I get an addrinfo of [["AF_INET", 9000, "255.255.255.255", "255.255.255.255", 2, 2, 17]]
20:09:08fbuilesvpassing it "<broadcast>"?
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20:10:01fbuilesvI'm not even sure if you're supposed to be able to pass it to something different from #bind.
20:12:25mahargI'm pretty sure what you guys are talking about is not at all platform independent.
20:13:04drbrainfbuilesv: -e 's = UDPSocket.new; p s.bind("<broadcast>", 9000)'
20:13:25drbrainstill fails, of course
20:13:29fbuilesvah ok
20:13:35fbuilesvmaharg: any ideas on the subject then?
20:14:17drbrainum... aren't you not supposed to be able to bind to the broadcast address?
20:15:19fbuilesvdrbrain: how'd you receive bc messages then?
20:16:07drbrains.bind nil, service
20:16:20drbrain... bind to *
20:17:02fbuilesvdoesn't nil bind to INADDR_ANY?
20:18:04drbrainyes, which is 0.0.0.0
20:18:10maharghttp://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-February/189550.html seems relevant
20:18:36fbuilesvdrbrain: that's get any message on that interface instead of the bc ones, wouldnt it? I'm not sure on this
20:18:51drbrainI'm not sure either
20:19:08mahargI think this probably goes well beyond testing a ruby implementation
20:19:13fbuilesvmaharg: checked that earlier, but binding to that address doesn't work either
20:19:28mahargall implementations are going to be pushing this stuff off to a lower, system-level, layer
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20:20:11mahargit seems above and beyond to expect all ruby implementations to include a full socket api abstraction layer
20:20:32drbrainlunch time for me
20:20:37fbuilesvdrbrain: thanks
20:21:52fbuilesvmaharg: I'm not so sure, for full compatibility with MRI I'd expect you to implement the full library and that includes support for sockets
20:22:12fbuilesvI do understand that many people doesn't share that mindset.
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20:24:46evanack
20:24:54evannone of Paul Brennan's patches apply cleanly
20:25:05evani think he did dev completely offline without much updating
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22:23:29zenspiderevan: yeah...
22:24:34drbrainNoKarma: ping
22:24:58drbrainNoKarma: you're indenting your methods after private, protected
22:25:02drbraincan you fix that?
22:25:07drbrainwe don't do that in rubinius
22:25:16zenspiderbetter, don't use private/protected :)
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22:28:39drbraincorundum: seen NoKarma
22:28:39corundumNoKarma was last seen 3 hours, 44 minutes and 7 seconds ago, joining #ruby-core
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22:33:40zenspiderwell... I guess ci.rb is on hold until the thing can actually run the specs. they seem more than a little borked atm
22:33:52rueBacks
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22:39:57zenspiderbrixen: does `mspec run -fs` print the description before or after running it?
22:41:52zenspiderthe specs seem to hang on Rational#to_s... that's f'd up. http://rafb.net/p/OOFEtt40.html
22:41:56rueAfter, I am pretty sure
22:41:56zenspider
22:42:16rueThere used to be a separate "immediate" format
22:42:55zenspiderdamn. after isn't as useful
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22:46:18rueMight still be an immediate format but the --help isn't
22:46:44rubuildius_amd64Gianluigi Spagnuolo: 9bf0c7fa2; 2533 files, 8435 examples, 28054 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors
22:46:53zenspiderunfortunately, I'm running mspec from a gem
22:48:46NoKarmadrbrain: I'll look into that tomorrow
22:49:17drbrainNoKarma: awesome, thanks!
22:49:43NoKarmais going to bed
22:49:48NoKarmanight all
22:49:57drbrainNoKarma: also, I removed StringIO < Data, since it is an MRI implementation detail for rb_wrap_struct and friends
22:50:00drbrain'night!
22:50:31NoKarmadrbrain: yeah, seen that. But I thought there might be some C-Extensions using it
22:51:30NoKarmadrbrain: I'll look into that tomorrow :)
22:52:02drbrainok :)
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22:53:37zenspiderok. the tests are hanging on 'require "readline"' if not tty, so I'm disabling the entire lot of them
22:55:16ruezenspider: Definitely looks like after from my little test
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22:56:21zenspideryeah. sad... and the formatters are a bit... odd. I doubt I can easily switch it to before
22:56:48zenspiderit is definitely readline tho... I've run through at least 4 MRI spec runs now
22:57:05rueI think it should be doable to change the registration order or something
22:59:33djwhittthank goodness. I don't know what is causing it, but I've been having a terrible time getting rubuildius_amd64 to complete a run
22:59:43zenspiderYAY. it finished! Failed: mri_rel_1_8_6, mri_1_8_7, mri_rel_1_8_7, rubinius, mri_trunk, mri_rel_1_9, mri_1_8, mri_1_8_6
22:59:47zenspider
22:59:52zenspiderstupid blank lines
23:00:01zenspiderdjwhitt: I'd bet readline is involved. :)
23:00:14djwhittzenspider: oh yeah? what makes you say that?
23:00:45zenspiderrequire 'readline' w/o a TTY seems to hang all my CI runs
23:00:55djwhittmy theory was that concurrent runs/left over tmp files were messing things up, but I haven't really tested that yet
23:01:00djwhittoh, interesting
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23:01:15djwhittactually, it should have a tty though
23:01:19djwhittI run it in screen
23:01:45brixenif readline requires a tty, then it needs a tty or the specs need to be guarded somehow
23:02:14zenspiderit isn't the specs, it is the require
23:02:29brixenwhat specs are requiring readline? just Readline?
23:02:35zenspiderhuh... I'm seeing really odd behavior from mspec itself
23:02:38zenspidery
23:02:53brixenwell, the specs can't not require readline
23:03:12brixenis this in multiruby?
23:03:21zenspiderlooks like multiruby -v -S mspec 1.8 > blah.txt dies very quickly with a Hangup, but the log keeps filling for quite some time
23:03:33boyscout1 commit by Christopher Thompson
23:03:33zenspiderbrixen: yes they can... the specs themselves can require readline
23:03:34boyscout * Fix rb_path2class.; ef08a21
23:03:49drbrainwell, there's more to it than just not being a tty, it seems
23:03:57drbrainecho | bin/rbx -r readline -e 0 | cat does not hang
23:04:12drbrainbut just require 'readline' will cause this problem, and not just in mspec
23:04:48nexcastellanCan now compile AND LOAD the following extensions: json mechanize hpricot recaptcha. rmagick compiles but does not load. No word on whether these extensions can actually be used.
23:05:06zenspidernexcastellan: rad.
23:05:34zenspiderbrixen: check this out: http://rafb.net/p/rEbhH037.html
23:05:40zenspider9 seconds of run
23:05:41nexcastellan:) I'm excited. Now to tackle rmagick.
23:05:57zenspideryet, http://rafb.net/p/DwLdot40.html from the log
23:06:04zenspiderany clue what's going on there?
23:06:22zenspiderI've had nohup in my shell setup since 1991. :)
23:06:29zenspidergah. I've had a shell setup since 1991
23:06:34zenspider:(
23:08:02brixenzenspider: not obvious to me
23:08:15brixenonly happens when mspec is run as a subprocess, though, yes?
23:09:05zenspiderseems to be, yes
23:10:04evanrumor of the day: powerset being bought by microsoft.
23:10:05brixenyeah, rake spec:check hangs too
23:10:39brixensome spec is doing nasty things with a subprocess
23:10:44bitsweat enters the room.
23:10:49nexcastellanpowerset is that lookup thing for Wikipedia, right?
23:11:13evanbitsweat: hey, did you ever go to that ruby group meeting at caltech?
23:11:15brixenzenspider: run rake spec:check and kill it when it hangs
23:11:23brixenzenspider: they you'll get the rest of the output
23:11:35evannexcastellan: yeah, semantic search, right now, just applied to wikipedia
23:11:36brixenthis is something newish
23:12:18djwhittif that happens I wonder if they'll make them switch all their Ruby code to IronRuby (re: powerset)
23:13:02zenspiderevan: short! short!
23:13:11evanheh
23:13:27bitsweatevan: I didn't know there was one
23:13:34zenspiderbrixen: yeah. I've got the same thing... except I stopped the hangs by hacking up the readline specs
23:13:37evanbitsweat: there was, there was like one meeting I think
23:13:40evanI never went.
23:13:45zenspiderI'd kill -9 the parent on hang and then everything else dumps out a few seconds later
23:13:52evanbeen trying to figure out how to get a group together in LA.
23:13:53bitsweatevan: recently? huh
23:13:59evannot really recently, no.
23:14:03evanlike a year or more ago.
23:14:09brixenzenspider: yeah, hanging in spec/ruby/1.8/library/readline/basic_quote_characters_spec.rb right?
23:14:11bitsweatthat'd be awesome
23:14:17zenspiderevan: what do you mean LA???
23:14:23zenspideryou mean VERY SOUTH SEATTLE
23:14:27evanoh yes, sorry
23:14:31zenspiderbrixen: all of them
23:14:32evanVERY SOUTH SEATTLE.rb
23:14:38evan:)
23:14:39bitsweathaha
23:14:47drbrainko1_away: asked me yesterday about seattle.rb
23:14:55evanbitsweat: yeah, the problem with any UG in the LA area is driving
23:14:56drbrainhe's going to set up very east seattle.rb
23:15:03bitsweatthere were some west LA meetups, but I'm not really up for that drive
23:15:05zenspiderhaha RAD
23:15:21evanbitsweat: you probably don't want to drive to Hollywood on a Thursday night, and I'm not huge on driving to Pass
23:15:45bitsweatecho park, downtown, east LA are biking distance :)
23:15:46evanthe perl user group (used to) have like 100+ and met in santa monica
23:15:51zenspiderevan: make it a friday night... hoes, blow, and ruby
23:15:55zenspiderHBR for short
23:15:56evanbitsweat: you in south Pas?
23:16:02evanoh
23:16:04evanthats a great name!
23:16:12zenspiderpark, downtown, east LA are biking distance :)
23:16:16zenspider(sorry)
23:16:25evanzenspider: having client problems today?
23:16:25bitsweatoh, bad...
23:16:37bitsweatevan: east Pasadena
23:16:37Arjen_ enters the room.
23:16:38zenspiderbitsweat: yeah... IRbad
23:16:56evanbitsweat: k.
23:17:06zenspiderevan: above was just a joke, but yes, ci.rb is having a horrid time on the MRI side of things
23:17:08antares enters the room.
23:17:14evanzenspider: hrm.
23:17:15drbrainI looked at prices for an electric scooter yesterday, too expensive still
23:17:38evanbitsweat: I think we just need to find a space and set a date
23:17:41evanand see what happens.
23:19:13zenspider1) we need a timeout control on mspec so that CI doesn't get borked the way the rubuildius processes have been. 2) we need to add guards for TTY-mandatory specs (or... whatever it is). 3) I dunno... but it had to go to 3
23:19:22zenspideroh. 3) I'm getting hangups when running mspec via multiruby
23:19:44brixenzenspider: I think the hangups are from sending HUP to 0
23:19:51brixenthere's a spec that does that iirc
23:19:57evanARG
23:19:59evanstill?
23:20:03evanthose fucking Process.kill specs.
23:20:08brixenzenspider: what do you suggest for TTY-mandadory guards?
23:20:25brixenzenspider: that would mean, those specs would never run in your multiruby process, not a good idea IMO
23:20:26zenspiderGAH
23:20:34evanI'm almost of the mind that we no stop spec'ing Process.kill
23:20:39evaner.
23:20:41brixenheh
23:20:43evans/no //
23:20:56evanand say it's just OS specific
23:21:03evanthe spec should be
23:21:13brixenthe spec could check the process group
23:21:14evanProcess.instance_methods(false).include? "kill"
23:21:16drbrainbrixen: I think it may be rubinius' readline extension
23:21:23drbrainI ran into this before, but not with specs
23:21:24zenspiderbrixen: running a subset that are stable > running everything that aren't
23:21:25evandone and done.
23:21:25brixendrbrain: I'm getting it in MRI
23:21:35wyhaines enters the room.
23:21:36drbrainah, ok
23:21:44brixenzenspider: there's no reason the readline specs should be unstable
23:21:46zenspiderevan: we need to either change the kill specs or remove them... they're shite
23:21:50rue leaves the room.
23:21:50evanyeah
23:21:54zenspiderthat and NOTHING in our specs should be doing a hup
23:21:55evanzenspider: i'm waiting on a phone call
23:22:00evanthen i'll look into them.
23:22:08evani may just making them all as excludes
23:22:10evanand leave it at that.
23:22:15evannever to be un-excluded.
23:22:22brixennot a solution
23:22:33evanis deleting them a solution?
23:22:39brixenwe need more clarity on what can be spec'd at the process boundary
23:22:41zenspideryes. :)
23:22:41evanbecause the behavior is totally OS dependent.
23:22:50evani think they should not be spec'd
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23:23:01evans/they/Process.kill/
23:23:04brixenwhat part of sending HUP is OS dependent?
23:23:07zenspiderat this stage, I'm in agreement with evan
23:23:21heycarsten enters the room.
23:23:24evanbrixen: kill() is OS dependent by nature.
23:23:27zenspiderwe can improve it over time, but right now we need stable results more than anything
23:23:34brixenit's the process ID it's sent to that is causing the problem
23:23:41evanand sending it to 0 is CERTAINLY OS dependent
23:23:54brixenyeah, we need more distinctions, not less
23:24:04brixenlet's not go whacky deleting specs that are problems
23:24:06brixenlet's fix them
23:24:24evanok, let me go look at them.
23:24:40zenspiderthere is nothing wacky about deleting specs that have been problems for months and months
23:24:44evanactually
23:24:47evanProcess.kill is very odd
23:24:49brixenzenspider: why cannot multiruby hook up the subprocess to the active tty?
23:24:49evanspec wise
23:24:55evanbecause he tests the arity of the method
23:25:02evanby expecting ArgumentError
23:25:06evanwhich is something no other spec does
23:25:09evanso i think that those should go away
23:25:15botanicus leaves the room.
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