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07:27:58ruebrixen: Had you found anything new for Mongrel (or other libs)?
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07:36:17rueHm. Are these signed argument counts necessary?
07:39:07tarcieriRuby ordinarily has negative arity...
07:40:08brixenrue: I'm fixing a bunch of capi cached data issues atm
07:40:20brixentarcieri: how do you mean?
07:40:56tarcieriumm, like... proc { |foo, *bar| foo }.arity
07:41:14tarcierito indicate a minimum arity, or whatever
07:41:25tarcieriin cases where it could potentially aceept more
07:41:43brixenyes
07:42:06brixenI was confused by the "ordinarily"
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07:42:18brixenit has negative arity if it takes varargs
07:42:23tarcieriyeah
07:42:33tarcieriby "ordinarily" I meant within the context of the language itself
07:42:43brixenah
07:42:50brixenI thought you meant "usually"
07:42:52brixenheh
07:43:01tarcieriyeah... I could've stated that better
07:43:07tarcieriI've had a lot of beer
07:43:12brixenheh, n/p
07:43:46tarcieriI'm trying to attempt an absolutely absurd transformation in my compiler now too
07:44:04tarcierione that would enable "copy on update" semantics in Reia
07:44:16brixensweet
07:44:18tarcieriso you could do things that have side effects on locals
07:44:31tarcierilike dict[key] = value and stuff
07:44:33tarcieriamazing!
07:45:02tarcieriwhy is dict[key] = value so hard in most languages
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07:48:41ruetarcieri: This is dispatch-time stuff, just slight ambiguity
07:49:16ruetarcieri: I think someone implemented a template Map at some point :P
07:49:26slavait is?
07:50:14brixenslava: cool post on the smalltalk work, I thought you were going to spoof it more for apr 1st :)
07:50:29tarcierihaha
07:50:33brixenit comes across so matter-of-fact heh
07:50:41slavait wasn't a spoof
07:50:46rueIt *is* matter-of-fact :P
07:50:47brixenI know
07:51:18tarcieriyou all saw http://redsnake.me/ right
07:52:02brixenI did now
07:52:11tarcieriheh
07:52:20tarcieriI thought it was pretty lulz
07:52:57slavamy goal is to beat visualworks on benchmarks
07:55:05tarcieriDesigners think in Lorem Ipsum
07:55:14tarcieri"Fuck You" -- DHH
07:55:32slavaapril fools is lame
07:55:51tarcieriyeah the only truly awesome thing was what Trent Reznor did
07:56:17tarcieriI mean, CADIE was pretty absurd
07:58:20rueWell, at least they spent some time on that
07:58:42tarcieriyeah
07:59:00tarcieriin the end CADIE reads its own logs, figures out it sucks balls, and kills itself
07:59:46tarcieriGoogle is just testing us to see what happens when they actually announce they have strong AI and it's consumed the whole Google search index
07:59:59rueHeh
08:00:14rueI have been keeping my distance to Googlies
08:00:28tarcieriGooglies? lol
08:03:46slavaI can now render text to a GDI bitmap :)
08:05:41rueHe, nice
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10:41:11rueWonder if we can get rid of some of this conversion stuff
10:55:22rueAhh, Erb, my arch-nemesis
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11:16:40dbussinkrue: trying to render a template?
11:21:57rueWas tracking down why Mongrel was completely devastating the stack
11:24:16rueTurns out, it was Erb, although the trigger is something else
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14:29:39rueHas anyone else been working on Erb?
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15:00:19peterhilHello
15:01:30peterhilrake fails for rubinius when it is installing vm/subtend/ruby.h
15:01:43peterhilinstall -c -m 0644 vm/subtend/ruby.h /usr/local/lib/rubinius/0.11/lib/ext/ruby.h
15:01:48peterhilrake aborted!
15:01:54peterhilNo such file or directory - vm/subtend/ruby.h
15:02:23peterhilI am using newest Mac OS X Leopard.
15:02:43peterhilHow could I make it build?
15:03:02peterhilThere is no vm/subtend directory
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15:11:15rueRight
15:11:32rueDo a `rake distclean && rake build`
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15:29:03rueWell, this is probably destined to fail rather horrifically
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15:37:35dbussinkpeterhil: the install task isn't tested for a while afaik
15:37:41dbussinkpeterhil: probably bst not to install for now
15:37:47dbussinkand run stuff from the checkout itself
15:37:57dbussink./bin/rbx -S gem install some-gem
15:38:22rueOhh, install too
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16:19:26evani'm here.....
16:21:34slavahey
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16:22:53rue*wave*
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16:26:29rueHow was your trip?
16:26:42rueI am breaking stuff
16:31:02headiusevan: I'm writing a short blog post on "How To Make Ruby Fast" which walks through multiple levels of optimizations in JRuby, how they help, what numbers they produce (tak), and whether it's meaningful or not
16:31:14headiusI'll take it up through experimental dyncall inlining and escape analysis in Java 7 stuff
16:31:23evansounds fun
16:31:28evanrue: trip was fine. long.
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16:31:39evanit was like a 16 hour flight with a 1 hour break in the middle
16:31:45evanLA => IAD, IAD => EZE
16:34:03rueSo long as you get off the plane for a moment
16:34:23evanbriefly, yes.
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16:45:21libcIs there any reason for immortal VMMethods ?
16:48:59evanno
16:49:09evani've been working on a way to properly manage them
16:50:11libcoh, good then
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17:47:13libchmm, spec with JIT everything (CALLS_TIL_JIT 0) faster by 1 sec (average of 5 runs: 34.09 vs 35.81)
17:48:57peterhildbussink: Thank you. Why isn't it mentioned anywhere, that install does not work?
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17:49:12peterhilIt worked from build directory.
17:49:37peterhilI hope I can get NArray working.
17:49:52dbussinkpeterhil: guess they haven't been updated to reflect that
17:49:56peterhilHow fast is Rubinius compared to Ruby 1.8 or 1.9?
17:50:49dbussinkdepends, there are a bunch of benchmarks that you can run
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17:52:45peterhilOk. One test also fails: ./vm/test/test_string.hpp:32: Error: Expected 4 (4) bytes to be equal at ("bl\0") and (str->byte_address()), found:
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17:55:40tilmanhow would i go about re-enabling the profiler? what's the successor of the Task class?
17:55:40dbussinkpeterhil: what os are you running? not seeing any here
17:56:21peterhildbussink: Mac OS X 10.5.6 on PowerPC G5
17:56:56brixentilman: I've actually got a number of changes for the profiler
17:57:05brixenchanges I intend to do
17:57:12dbussinkpeterhil: any failures in the specs?
17:57:21brixenI could work on it today after I push this capi cache fix stuff
17:57:28ruetilman: There is no direct successor, Thread and VM split the work
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17:58:13tilmanbrixen: \o/
18:01:43tilmanrue: thanks, but i'll stop thinking about this for now :]
18:14:31rueOkaydokay, think I got dynamic locals working
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18:27:35brixenlooks like I have the RSTRING caches working bidirectionally now
18:27:51brixenneed to fix up some RARRAY stuff, docs and I'll push
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19:02:03peterhildbussink: I had to rebuild rubinius - I'll find out. Bbut in the meantime I got NArray compiled under MacRuby 0.3! Wohoo!
19:03:05rueSweet
19:04:36peterhilYep. :-)
19:10:37peterhilOn specs there are many failures and errors + rbx crashed on about 90th spec!
19:11:01headiuswhat specs?
19:11:14brixentilman: what was the reason for length*2 in rb_ary_new2 and new4?
19:11:56peterhilheadius: It is not finished yet, but there are plenty of failures
19:12:07brixenpeterhil: what are you running?
19:12:28peterhilbrixen: Mac OS X 10.5.6 on PowerPC G5
19:12:34brixenwhat command?
19:12:42headiusppc
19:12:45headiushmmm
19:13:34peterhilI have to eat, brb...
19:15:51ruebrixen: There is no particular reason
19:15:58rueFine to remove those
19:16:05brixenk, I did
19:18:13slavaheadius: nice blog post
19:18:50headiusslava: thank you
19:20:48tarcieriI should totally port some benchmarks over to Reia
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19:21:39headiusyeah
19:21:51headiusI think the "ruby that is not ruby" benchmarks have become a plague upon us
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19:22:22headiussad thing is that it's usually not the implementers themselves posting numbers
19:22:23brixenheadius: did evan tell you I'm adding --score to mspec?
19:22:38headiusit's goofball hit-scamming bloggers
19:22:54headiusbrixen: I don't think so
19:22:58headiuswhat will the metric be?
19:23:46brixenN = total examples; X = N - tagged - failing; score = X*100/N
19:24:11brixenso, a percentage compliant based on examples (it blocks)
19:24:59brixenand I talked to the guy who made rubyspecresults.org about having the front page a list of impl with their compliance score
19:25:15brixenit was evan's idea
19:25:25headiuscoolo
19:25:31brixenbasically adds some truth to the benchmarking stuff
19:25:41headiusyeah
19:25:44brixenand we're going to get real benchmarks into RBS
19:25:51brixenjust will take a little time
19:26:06headiuswhat about something like macruby-experimental, which probably can't even report a score yet
19:26:08brixenAntonios is committed to elevating the quality of RBS
19:26:14brixenit can
19:26:31headiusok
19:26:37brixensince you can tag, omit files, etc
19:26:47headiusI guess any impl will have to get rubyspec running to have a score then
19:26:53brixenas long as somthing can run mspec, should be able to get a score
19:27:00brixenyeah
19:27:01headiusyeah
19:27:02headiusok
19:27:03macournoyerbut but what you tinyrb?
19:27:11brixenmacournoyer: you get no score :P
19:27:14headiuset tu tinyrb?
19:27:15brixen0%
19:27:20brixenheh
19:27:20macournoyercan we still be friends?
19:27:21macournoyer:(
19:27:23brixenyes!
19:27:36headiusI'll print up jruby shirts with our score
19:27:59brixenmacournoyer: we should see about getting you running some specs with a tiny runner
19:28:20brixenI haven't been tracking your progress lately
19:28:23macournoyeryeah
19:28:48brixenheadius: mspec is like a minimum bar to claiming anything serious about running "Ruby"
19:28:56macournoyerI still have Proc to implement
19:28:58brixenexperimentation notwithstanding
19:29:01headiussure
19:29:09brixenmacournoyer: oh!
19:29:16macournoyerbrixen: I'll let you know when it's ready
19:29:34brixenactually, evan's idea of laces (tiny tests) should be good for tinyrb
19:29:42brixenI should formalize it a bit
19:29:44macournoyerwhat's that?
19:29:57brixenit's kind of ad hoc atm
19:30:04brixenbut you can look in rbx/test/laces
19:30:16brixenthe idea is pulling yourself up by your bootstraps
19:30:23brixensometimes you can only run tiny bits of code
19:30:34brixenbut I can layer a runner on that using MRI
19:30:46brixenand you have like tiny mspec-ish tests
19:30:51brixento push you forward
19:31:04tilmanbrixen: rue added that * 2 thinking that MRI did it. but it doesn't; imo the *2 should be removed
19:31:16brixentilman: consider it gone :)
19:31:24macournoyerbrixen ah, that is similar to what I have now
19:31:36macournoyerhttp://github.com/macournoyer/tinyrb/tree/a362ce6b08d43ad891547e1fbf1d07f1a4004ac4/test
19:31:45rueHm. I had forgotten about this.. `def foo(&blk); lambda { yield }.call &blk; end; foo { p :hi }`
19:31:53brixenmacournoyer: yeah, I was thinking of making it consistent with mspec a bit
19:32:07macournoyercool! I can change format no problem
19:32:33brixensweet, yeah, you've got a lot of good stuff here
19:33:02macournoyeryeah I think i'm moving forward pretty nicely
19:33:12macournoyerand perf are good too
19:33:16brixenmacournoyer: my idea would just be to have a runner on top that does stuff like reporting and tagging
19:33:19macournoyerbut GC is crap
19:33:37brixenbut the basic idea is good, just a script that runs and produces a value
19:33:40headiusmacournoyer: you know, you could almost ref-count and get away with it
19:33:48headiussince it's meant for smaller things
19:34:00headiusthat would be practically no code
19:34:01macournoyerheadius: yeah that's the plan
19:34:25headiusahh cool
19:34:29macournoyersomeone proposed doing this as a master thesis
19:34:43macournoyernot sure if it's going to happen or if I'll do it
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19:35:48djwhittsomeone should setup a betting market for predicting future Ruby VM performance
19:35:54macournoyerheadius: nice blog post
19:36:01tarcieriyeah fo sho
19:36:06headiusmacournoyer: thank you
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19:37:03tarcierisomeone needs to make a site like shootout.alioth for Ruby implementations
19:37:08tarcierirun a comprehensive suite of benchmarks
19:37:27tarcieripeople google "what is the fastest ruby?" and find two year old blog posts
19:37:36brixentarcieri: the key is what are the benchmarks
19:37:50brixenwe're working on making RBS better
19:38:09tarcieriis that ruby benchmark suite or something?
19:38:15brixenin fact, there is even an #rbs channel for all your bright ideas :)
19:38:18brixenyeah
19:38:37tarcieriwow, forspeed.org isn't taken
19:38:53tarcierialthough if I were to register that I'd want to make a blog post about "clever" things people do... FOR SPEED!
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19:51:30ruedbussink: Erb is functional-ish. Failing 2 specs
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20:10:53peterhildbussink: There was 500 errors and failures... I tried to post them to pastie, but it was too big, so I put them on my server: http://sushi.tuna.fi/tmp/Rubinius_mspec_output.txt
20:11:10dbussinkpeterhil: well, you probably ran all specs, not just the CI set
20:11:16peterhilYes
20:11:28dbussinkthat is known to have a lot of failures
20:11:30peterhilWhat is the CI set?
20:12:29rue`bin/mspec ci -fs`
20:13:52peterhilBTW, should I use a newer version from source? I'm using rubinius 0.11.0-dev (ruby 1.8.6) (9159d36bc 12/31/2009) [powerpc-apple-darwin9.6.0]
20:15:12rueWhoa.. yours is from the future!
20:15:29rueWell, so is mine for that matter
20:15:48peterhilHeh, true... :-)
20:16:54peterhilOk, on the ci set there are 7 failures and 10 errors
20:18:00ruePastie those up, 's not too bad
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20:19:31peterhilhttp://pastie.org/435178
20:20:29brixenthat's why we need a ppc CI bot
20:20:53rueHah, I dunno, pretty well off if just #pack is failing
20:20:54brixenI've fixed others of those in the past, but folks add specs on intel arch and me don't know about it
20:21:06brixenyeah, those are not a big deal
20:21:19brixenpeterhil: I have access to a ppc box, I'm building on it now
20:21:30ruepeterhil: Hah, tutunnakoista tekstia tuolla joukossa :P
20:22:04rueI have a restriction order on PPC
20:24:29boyscoutStyle fix for digest mock. - e6f69d8 - Brian Ford
20:24:29boyscoutFixed capi StringValue to call #to_str. - 96fe31b - Brian Ford
20:24:29boyscoutAdded capi specs for caching issues with RSTRING, RARRAY. - c124a4f - Brian Ford
20:24:29boyscoutAdded bi-directional flush/update for capi caching. - c05f7b6 - Brian Ford
20:24:29boyscoutRemoved some hacked-in work-arounds in readline.c - 060fc7e - Brian Ford
20:25:19brixenI need to add docs for that, but I'm grabbing some lunch first
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20:27:37boyscoutCI: Build 060fc7e failed. http://ci.rubini.us/rubinius/builds/060fc7e8deea4f72828feb6c877ad23076dfc096
20:28:05brixenoh linux, I love you
20:31:56peterhilrue: Kappas, Suomesta myös... :-)
20:32:52rueYep. scoopr, loop and a couple others belong to the cabal too ;)
20:35:57peterhilI'm disappointed at MacRuby 0.3 performance - on my program it is twice as SLOW as 1.8.6...
20:36:36wmoxamI'm disappointed that it's 2009 and I don't have a flying car
20:36:46peterhil:-)
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20:42:31rueActually, only twice as slow is not too bad for 0.3
20:42:52headiusmost perf issues I've seen in macruby are related to their core class impls
20:43:07headiuswhen it moved to objc types for everything, performance dropped substantially
20:44:24brixenseems I can get rbx to abort deterministically compiling the specs on linux
20:45:10boyscoutFixed definition of REALLOC_N in capi. - e3fe786 - Brian Ford
20:47:18rueheadius: LLVM will make it faster by chopping the NS prefix :)
20:47:25headiusthank goodness!
20:47:48boyscoutCI: e3fe786 success. 1438 files, 7105 examples, 23353 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors
20:48:25tarcierirue: haha
20:48:32tarcierirue: shorter function names, for speed!
20:49:36peterhilrue: Haha. Well, it seems like MacRubys strength is the Cocoa part, not the speed...
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20:59:08headiusevan: around?
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21:07:55rueWtfking Erb
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22:56:40boyscoutFixes VM string tests on OS X PPC. - a0a1f27 - Brian Ford
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22:58:41boyscoutCI: a0a1f27 success. 1438 files, 7105 examples, 23353 expectations, 0 failures, 0 errors
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